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Official Panasonic GH3 topic, series 2
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  • @stanlymanly2 Nah, I think they are talking down about the GH3 because they don't want people to buy it so that they can get theirs first! That or they are feeling really guilty about begging panasonic to make it do "low light" and "resolution" like the 5D, which panasonic did, but also included the 5D moire and aliasing. They got everything they asked for south of being a RED and they aren't happy about it so they pitch a fit. Maybe they should just go Occupy something instead. Same whiny, spoiled attitudes. :)

  • @svart

    It is quite simple. Some people will buy it day one because it has unique wireless capabilities, a silent shutter option, still has top notch video for its price, and they know that they can work around the issues that we have seen with the pre-production models.

    Then there is a second group of people who want to buy it but are skeptical about several of the issues we have seen with pre-production firmware. They will wait for the first round of testing on a production model before forming a firm opinion.

    Then there are the people who are completely satisfied with their GH2 footage but they are scared that someone will come along with another camera that the general public thinks is better. Then they will be forced to upgrade because they don’t want to have other people perceive them as having inferior equipment regardless of whether those things really make a difference or not.

    The 1st group of people will buy the GH3 right out of the gate because they can really use the new functionality and they know that the footage will be good enough. They will test it so that the second group will be able to make an informed decision on whether it will be a good purchase for them or not.

    There is nothing that can be done for the 3rd group because they are going to continue to disparage it even after all of the testing on a production model is complete just because they don’t want to be forced to upgrade.

  • @mpgxsvcd yeah, I suppose sarcasm doesn't come across on the internet very well. You are right about the types of folks though. I just can't resist poking at all of the folks who jump on the pissing-and-moaning bandwagon.

  • @svart fearing not you become your enemy in the instant that you whine

  • @mpgxsvcd I'm in the 1st group and really looking forward to this camera.

    People complained when the GH2 was released how it wasn't an upgrade and how it wasn't as good as hacked GH1 and now the same thing continues with the GH3. Relax folks it might not be a worthwhile upgrade for everyone but that doesn't mean its not a worthwhile upgrade.

  • I've never been an early adopter of tech, with the exception of this camera and the GH2. The factory bitrates, remote capability and build quality alone justify the upgrade, and I am further excited by the low light capability and strong still image performance. It looks like I will be able to utilize the camera for both video and stills at events without having to add a heavy full frame camera to the gear bag. This frees up resources to further build and consolidate my m43 lenses. Not having to add gear for audio monitoring is another great plus. If moire ends up being a problem I'll work around it by using my GH2 in it's place to get that one sensitive shot and move on. It won't be a big deal at all.

  • People seems to be either in one camp or the other. Until we see final footage from production camera I will await any judgement. But everyone has the right to complain. Most of the gh1 and gh2 users on this site came because it offered some special qualities. The main difference compared to its fellow DSLR was the lack of moire/aliasing and true 1080p resolution.

    Now if the gh3 has the same level of moire/aliasing and lower resolution of the other dslr. I think they are in there right to be upset. In my case, I will await final production version of the gh3 to make a choice. As a Nikon shooter (who also bought Canon for video) who made the move to the gh2 because of its image quality. If it is the same as my D800 with moire/aliasing, I will just buy a moire filter and hyperdeck shuttle for my D800 as it will cost me less than buying a gh3 for now. The BMC could be next and bye bye gh line. The reason is simple, I don't feel any attachment to any brand and fanboyism as I smell in the last post.

  • I dont want they put me in a camp.

  • Like many here I have a Canon T2i, A few nice Camcorders from Canon and Sony, GH1 and a couple of big JVC DV GY500U Video Cams. Even if the GH3 ends up having an intermittent issue with Moire and Aliasing, there are aspects of the camera that would still be very useful for me as part of my toolkit. The thing is that i'm not convinced that the Moire and Aliasing are going to be as big a problem as some are suggesting. If it's a real big problem then that could change my calculations. However i've seen some really nice looking footage that gives me some confidence in the GH3.

  • i've cancelled my order, and went to black magic,

    i don't like the specifications, the quality is ok, but ill order it when it is hackable, rather not take the risk of it being "unhackable".

  • @sicovdplas

    So "unhackable" = "unusable" now? Just curious about what bit rate you plan on using that will take the GH3's stock options from not worth buying to better than "ok".

  • Put me in the camp of "I'm not nearly good enough at using my GH2 to full potential yet so why upgrade until I get my act together?"

  • I just got finished looking at the difference between the size of the bodies and size of the sensors of the GH3 and the D600 and just thought it would be interesting to show. Also, just knowing that a 16:9 image would be coming from a 4:3 image sensor on the GH3 and a roughly 16:9 image sensor of the D600.

    1261 x 655 - 98K
  • Just curious but is there some sort of adapter available at this point where I can use Canon EF and EF-S lenses on M43 with full AF, aperture, and IS control, preferably for under $200? I would love to use the GH3 since Canon isn't providing a body worth upgrading for me. The GH3 is perfect for me, but i sure as hell am not buying M43 lenses.

  • @mpgxsvcd group4: people who are completely satisfied with their GH2 footage and want gh3 a big success. Then they will not be forced to upgrade because they dont care other people perceive them as having inferior equipment regardless of whether those things really make a difference or not.

    my group :-)

  • @that1guyy - sadly, no such adapter exists for that kind of money. I'm in the same boat as you, and have started buying vintage glass that fits both cameras.

  • @bleach551 The D600 is definitely intriguing for it's ability to record 4:2:2 uncompressed to a Ninja or Shuttle, however Nikon's downscaling method has resulted in some of the worst moire I've ever seen on any DSLR. I'm sure Mosaic will come out with a filter for the cam eventually, but when you add up the cost of a $300 filter plus Ninja you're looking at about $3400 just to get going. You could almost buy (3) GH3's for that kit price or a BMC camera. And both the GH3 and BMC already have high quality codecs implemented without the need for additional add-ons.

  • @mpgxsvcd It all depends on the sensor, and good tests, so far it has moire, which is a big no no. If it can render more details it's better, if not i can rather stick to the GH2 as a B-cam, i've shot on the 5D MK3 with 72mbit all-i and i was not really impressed with the rate, the point is the 4:2:0, and GH3 does not have 4:2:2 HDMI out, so that was a reason i decided not to pre-order it.

  • @Tron,

    I have owned a Nikon D7000 and I didn't see Moire nearly as bad as you referred to. It looked as good as some gh2 footage but with slightly more moire but I always controlled that with a shallower depth of field. The internal video recorded codec was good enough for me. And, so far, I am seeing moire on the GH3, although I know that it has not reached it's final version yet. Add to that a 2X crop factor and 4:2:0 hdmi out and the $700 dollars difference between the GH3 and D600 doesn't look so bad now.

    I know that the 4:2:2 hdmi out for the d600 has a black border around it now but I believe so did the D800 initially until firmware fixed it.

    I didn't want a full frame sensored dslr because of the really shallow depth of field and that was why I wanted the gh3, however, I just don't think I can live with a 2X cropped sensor camera and buying expensive wide angle lenses.

  • If the moiré could be an issue of the new 12-35 lens only, don't forget we have here TWO unknown and not enough tested components. So I will not even try to have my first opinion about the new GH3 before somebody does reliable tests under the same conditions.

    So it needs good test footage of GH3 compared with one GH2 or GH1:

    1. with THE SAME new panasonic lens 12-35
    2. with THE SAME good old aproved MF lens, there are so many
  • @bleach551 I'm confused, a tokina 11-16 is the same price whether it's mounted to a D600/7000 or a GH2/3. Look, I'm done rewarding manufacturers who put shit codecs in their 'Pro' models or require $1000 recorders to get acceptable output. VK and the PV community developed better bitrates for the GH2 and it influenced Panasonic to follow their achievements with factory-supported high bitrate iterations on their latest model, the GH3. If I wanted to go back to 24Mbps I would jump all over Nikon's latest fluff, but that jazz is old and unwelcome now. The 72Mbps ALL-I is less than half what pro-res takes up for storage, yet delivers footage free of visible artifacts (as far as I can see). It is a nice archive format and good starting point for importing to my NLE workflow, so I see no reason to buy external recorders that will deliver footage I cannot distinguish as superior when pixel peeping... But to each their own.

  • @Tron,

    Now try a full frame manual 50mm 1.2 ais on both a D600 and a GH3, 50mm on the D600 and 100mm on the GH3. To get roughly the same F.O.V on the GH3, you would need the a 25mm 0.95 Voigtlander meant for a micro 4/3rd sensor ($498 to $600 for 50mm Nikon 1.2 ais, $899 to $1200 for Voigtlander 25mm 0.95), correct me if I am wrong. I am sure you would agree that we have seen both good and bad video from the GH1, GH2 and now the GH3. I think it depends more on workflow than anything , however, all things being equal the GH series cameras will perform better. The question now is will that 72Mbps All-I codec be enough to give the quality difference that you and everyone else is expecting before the hacks come if it is even hackable.

    I am not saying that the final GH3 firmware will not get rid of all the problems most on this board have noticed and commented on. I am just saying what if it doesn't and it has a similar moire problem as the Canon, Nikon and Sony cameras, then what? Back to the GH2 with what the GH3 improved upon?

    Just playing Devil's Advocate here that's all.

  • @bleach551 From the other point of view, crop 2x gives you possibility to turn normal, cheap primes into great tele lenses under dirty cheap price, true? And there are also many wide FX primes which are unexpensive because of the lesser IQ in their corners and with GHx we don't worry about that, we use only centre of the image where soooo many lenses are just great. And with GHx we can use ANY lens, not only expensive Nikkors. None of us knows what GH3 really can, and it was the same with GH1 and GH2 before VK hacked them. 2 years ago there were many people who doubted GH2 will ever reach the level of hacked GH1 and look now! GH3 is very exciting new camera, we will see soon what it really can.

  • @tetakpatak,

    That was what I liked about my 7D( 1.6x crop) and my Nikon D7000(1.5X crop), I got the best part of every lens, the center. For the exact reasons you mentioned, I never really wanted a full frame DSLR. I felt that I would probably have to buy more expensive lens to compensate for the low IQ corners that would probably be revealed in my current lenses.

    The lens selection for the GH series/ micro 43rds cameras are extensive , however how many wide high quality 25mm and wider with an maximum aperture of 1.2 and wider lenses are out there for less than $600 not including c-mount lenses, which will vignette.

    However, as I started using my cameras more and more for photography, I realized that something was missing. After using a friends Nikon d700, I found what it was, A full frame sensor. I still don't know how or if I will like using a full frame sensor for video, I thought the 1.5X crop factor of my Nikon D7000 was enough, But I am willing to try it out just for the sake of having a full frame sensor for photos.

    I know what you all are all thinking, This board is for individuals who use their GH series camera more for video than photography. But it seems Panasonic is placing an equal importance on the photo side of their cameras and I can only assume that they won't turn from this in the future. How this will effect the Video side I don't know but it might be in a way that most current owners of GH series cameras might not like.

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