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GH5 Panasonic camera, from anticipation to love or hate
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  • I love everything about my GH4s except the low light abilities. I've used 3 GH4s since they were first available. I've mentioned before even using fast glass like 1.2 doesn't help enough not to mention it's almost impossible to keep a subject in focus.

    I will wait to see what the GH5 will bring but I may need to move onto the likes of the FS7 as I would be interested to have 10bit 4:2:0 internal as well as better low light and dynamic range. All features we won't likely see soon in the GH range.

    To be honest I would love if Panasonic had some options between the GH4/DVX-200 and the Varicams. Something in the $5,000-$10,000 range to compete with the others.

  • @dial

    Instead of waiting, find some good read about sensors and open the school physics book. It'll help a lot.

  • If Panasonic would just come out with the equivalent of the LS 300 and a Sensor that is better in low light than the FS7, I would jump on it. I have had "Hands On" the DVX-200 and did not like it.

  • So let's wait for the APS-C S35 sensor inside the GH5 and also a new set of some superfast prime and zoom lenses for it.

    But this will not improve low light, because they will need to keep 3840x2160 pixels inside the M43 crop and add more pixels to fill the S35. So the S35 sensor and the multiaspect M43 sensor will be the same in terms of low light.

  • So let's wait for the APS-C S35 sensor inside the GH5 and also a new set of some superfast prime and zoom lenses for it.

    As soon as APS-C appears it'll be huge wining due to absent lenses, and another whining why it was not FF, or at least(!), not same dynamic range as FF.

  • "So let's wait for the APS-C S35 sensor inside the GH5 and also a new set of some superfast prime and zoom lenses for it. But this will not improve low light, because they will need to keep 3840x2160 pixels inside the M43 crop and add more pixels to fill the S35. So the S35 sensor and the multiaspect M43 sensor will be the same in terms of low light."

    There should be no insurmountable problem getting 3840x2160 pixels inside the entire width of a APS-C/s35 Sensor. And, just imagine what a SpeedBooster could do with it.

  • they can fill the apsc s35 with 3840x2160, but then the m43 crop will NOT be 4k... this way the camera will be a niche product, low sales... this is the reason JVC did the LS300 with 3840x2160 inside the m43 crop and the s35 with more pixels, so it can record 4k with m43 lenses also.

    these considerations points to Panasonic and Olympus not going to s35 sensor in m43 cameras... or they will do like JVC did, because they will not want to make the m43 crop with less than 3840x2160.

    if they do the s35 apsc with 3840x2160 it will be an expensive camera due to low amount of sales, niche product. the 3840x2160 inside the m43 crop increase sales because m43 lenses can record 4k.

  • apefos, It seems that a 12MP Sensor would be more like optimum to produce a 4k crop. I really do not advocate using an 8 MP AFS-C/s35 Sensor

  • Signal processors. I think they can reduce the noise on existing sensors if they work on the signal processors; there is still a lot of room there.

    They could also get rid of that annoying 4k crop factor, if they did a full sensor readout and downsize it to 4k / UHD internally, like Samsung did. This I think also reduces the recorded noise.

    For more light and bokeh they could also produce a set of fast video lenses.

    Electronic ND filter.

    Square sensor, so in 1:1 (anamorphic!) the full image circle can be used, and in 4k a GH2 like width.

    Phase detect focus would awesome.

    And 5 axis IBIS, that works with video.

    4k 50/60p 200Mbs

  • something like this, the proper color sensor:

    5120 x 2700 for Cine 4k, 23,920 x 12,614mm (APSC S35 size)

    4800 x 2700 for Ultra HD, 22,425 x 12,614mm (APSC S35 size)

    and 4096 x 2160 or 3840 x 2160 inside the M43 crop using all area from the M43 image circle.

    1280 x 720 - 131K
  • I don't expect this to happen but if the GH5 had a 8MP sensor instead of the 16MP sensor would't the low light performance double? Since you only need 8MP or so for 4K

    Kind of how the A7S's sensor is able to catch more light than the A7R.

  • Considering Panasonic wouldn't pay the relatively small amount of tax to dodge the 30 min recording limit I really can't see them putting a larger and more expensive sensor in a GH5 that wouldn't give any advantage with their existing lens range. I will be very interested to see what they do though...

  • Put aside low light for a bit, I own both a GH4 and also a blackmagic pocket. So far I have been unable to buy the shogun for improving in the GH4's internal codec due to the significant and high cost. Therefore when I want a more cinematic look and excellent skintones straight out of the cameraI with even just 1 LUT applied in post, I use the BMPCC even though it is a much more difficult camera to shoot with. However even with just internal 8 bit 4K, the GH4 is still my main choice for anything with a lot of detail such as certain wide shots and nature - leaves, grass etc. What will make me buy a GH5 is internal 10 bit, 4K, ProRes 422 recording with a new sensor that has a bit more of that organic look which somehow blackmagic achieves with even their smaller sensors! Otherwise I will be saving for the new URSA mini 4.6K. I hope you hear that loud and clear Panasonic!!!

  • CrowBar,

    Perhaps you should just forget about an external 4k recorder. Although there was a huge improvement in my A7s, it was hard to see any improvement in my GH4 unless you use a much higher bitrate.

  • Thanks RRRoger, agreed regarding most picture profiles except when recording in V-LOG log apparently the external recorder does make for significant improvement. Being able to record in V-LOG on the GH5 internally in 10 bit would eliminate the need for an external recorder and motivate many of us to upgrade I think...

  • I think we're definitely going to see 10 bit internal this year, all of the 4K TV manufacturers are touting HDR/10 bit as the next big thing for 4K TVs. Panasonic has been pushing the GH series as the best fit for consumer & pro TV content creation, so it would only be fitting to support this feature.

    In addition, Ambarella's recently announced chipsets (H1, H2, H12) provide 4K 10 bit in H.265 Main Profile at up to 60P in addition to high framerate H.264 8 bit at up to 120P.

    If Panasonic achieves the same level of performance or better we will be in for a real treat. I'm guessing: 20 Mp BSI Sensor, 5K 24/30P 8 bit, 4K 24/30/60P 10 bit, 4K 120P 8 bit, HD 24/30/60P 10 bit, HD 0-240 VFR mode 8 bit, 5K Timelapse 8 bit, 4K Timelapse 10 bit

  • I think in many ways, the GH5 will have to compete with the Nikon D500. Double the resolution on the TouchScreen and keep the swing out feature. Quadruple the Low Light Performance Much faster Processor for Better 4k Codec and 1080P120.

    If it cannot do this, I will pass on the upgrade and keep my GH4 for travel and hiking.

  • Why would anybody want 5k resolution? There's a near revolt going on amongst Hollywood DOP's about having 4K foisted on them, and the the vast majority prefer to shoot at 2k. Dynamic Range and color science is king

  • @mrbill Are you sure about that? The ever loved aging Alexa is 2.8k, a good bit higher than 2k, and everyone raves about using it. Why would anyone complain about 4k, especially if the standard is moving towards that anyway? Film scans provide at least 4k resolution.... I dont see the issue.

  • @mrbill 5K would allow for a near perfect crop of the sensor (5120 x 2880 frame vs. 5184 sensor width) with no image downscaling required in camera. It also allows for 15Mp individual frame grabs vs. 8Mp grabs w/4K. So nearly twice the resolution available for much larger print sizes from the video stream.

    5K would probably be presented as a flagship feature and many like myself would typically use it for specialist projects (fashion hybrid) and stick to 4K 10 bit for the majority of work. That being said it would be a good marketing tool for Panasonic to stay one step ahead of the competition on paper and for good or bad, the marketing people usually win when it comes to prosumer feature releases, not Hollywood DPs.

  • When you are all talking about 10 bit, Im assuming you are all expecting 10 bit 4:2:0, right? I cant imagine they would put 10 bit 4:2:2 in cam... Id personally rather have 8 bit 4:2:2 than 10 bit 4:2:0 in cam. EDIT: Well... I guess Im just thinking about 1080p. With 4k, 4:2:0 color is still at 1080p detail levels, so that is manageable. 10 bit would be nice at that point for banding issues, but man 4:2:2 makes things noticeably crisper.

  • @joethepro - amen to 4:2:2 - so much more important than 10bit

  • I'd be surprised if anything other than 4:2:2 subsampling was implemented with 4K 10 bit. Current spec for AVC-Intra is 4K 10 bit 4:2:2 @ 320-800 Mbps for 24/30/60P. There's also 4K 12 bit 4:4:4 @ 640-800 Mbps for 24/30P. If they implement a long-GOP version they can probably get it down to 150-200 Mbps for smaller file sizes. I don't see any 10 bit 4:2:0 formats under AVC-Ultra v2.0 except for a proxy version

  • @Tron Yah in that case, I just say there's no way they would put 10 bit 4:2:2 in cam on the GH5. That would directly compete with their higher end stuff. I cant imagine seeing this in prosumer cameras for another 3-5 years at least. Its going to be 8 bit 4:2:2, max.

  • It's unlikely they will implement any of those Specs.. The most I see them Implementing would be internal 8bit 4:2:2 and keeping all the GH4 features. The best policy is be happy with the camera you have right now and make the best out of it.