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Black Magic: Official $1,995 raw cinema camera topic, series 2
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  • I don't see why you wouldn't just want to use an adapter since the mount will be passive either way. If all your lenses are Nikon F, then just don't take off the adapter.

  • @thepalalias Yeah, assuming that the mount on the BMDCC is no more complex than the RED's. I guess I'm looking for theoretical answers unless someone here has the camera and can verify it more concretely.

  • @htinla You mean interchangable mounts like what RED uses on the Epic and Scarlet?

  • Since this m4/3 version is passive, would it be possible to make the mount interchangeable? Couldn't you just unscrew the chrome mount and replace it with another lens mount type? I know you could just use adapters, but if you had all Nikon (or Pentax, Minolta, C-Mount...whatever) lenses, for example, it'd be nice just to convert it to that mount....what do you think? Would this m4/3 design allow for this?

  • Ideally Most serious guys will want both cameras. They both have strong points that don't necessarily overlap eah other, but I bet they will be able to intercut well.

    The fact is there is no "Swiss army knife of cameras" until you get into the $30,000+ range, so a $3000 camera and a $1500 camera together make a good affordable combo.

  • I'm wondering if specs will change at all on the GH3 now that the MFT BMCC is a reality. I don't care that much about panny native bitrate, at this point. That is, as long as VK and crew can crack it... I want better DR - like c/s-log and I would like 422 with clean out. That would make me consider purchasing the GH3 as a B cam. Otherwise, I can use the GH2 as a B cam knowing the baked in color restrictions going in... I love my GH2s and I plan to shoot with them when the need arises.

  • @matthere for me personally the GH2 is that cheap it's almost throw away, so I can't see a GH3 replacing it, just adding to it. It would become a backup.

    I'm buying into the BMCC mFT, so if the GH3 does 1080/60p then I'll be having one. Otherwise I'll be sticking with GH2 and BMCC.

  • A lot of people who will be looking at the gh3 will already have a gh1/2, and they will be aware of it's limitations as far as codec is concerned, I am pretty sure the gh3 will have some tempting treats for me, but I have to say that I am concerned that if Panasonic sticks with 8bit I am going to be looking over my shoulder at the BMCC and wondering if I made the right decision about IQ?

    These are different cameras and are used for different reasons but when one already owns a gh2 the need for a gh3 is reduced, and could that IQ gap be filled by the BMCC?

    I will hang onto the gh2, because I enjoy it's ergonomics and flexibility, I do have a dilema about BMCC or GH3. It's great to have these options but I hope Panny narrows the IQ gap significantly.

  • @kazuo I don't think the EF mount is tokenism. It's purely target market, and bringing an unknown product requires a significant potential market. You get that with EF. I don't think we need to argue the merits of each mount or the timing of them anymore, as BM have proved that they listen and can execute very quickly.

    As for Panasonic, I don't think there's any destruction going on. BMCC is going to be terrible ergonomicly compared to cameras that are designed for run and gun. The only market it is going to displace is those using run and gun camera as a film, music video, corporate video making tool.

  • @peterdv_dot_com

    BMCC should have just embraced mft from the start. Think about it, pp who are used to shooting FF will have alot to consider before making the switch to BMC despite the EF mount.
    What is the EF mount supposed to facilitate? It's tokenism, nothing more than cheap consolation that you can migrate your Canon lenses over, when the truth is you will suffer a crop factor which is more than x2. If these people had wanted to make a switch they would have come over to Gh2, which is less expensive, more compact, the video it produces is unmistakably more efficient.

    So, am not sure how an EF BMCC is more valuable than MFT BMC. To me, BMC has just started to destroy Panasonic's market. As @itimjim rightly pointed out, BMC wins alone on 10 bit Pro-res 422, 12 bit Raw is an incredible bonus

  • BMC with MFT - this is huge! Next big paycheck and I'm jumping on this.

  • @peterdv_dot_com gotcha. Crap, that's right. Yet another reason I won't buy anymore Panny glass.

  • For me, I have changed my order.

    I don't need to buy a new set of primes, I can continue to use Minolta ROKKORs with an adapter.

    The B4-m43 adapter I ordered last night will work. Some of my C-mounts that didn't quite cover the GH2 might work a little better with BMC due to the smaller sensor. I don't need to buy extra adapters.

    I will still aspire to building a set of Rokinon Cine Primes EF, useable now with EF-m43 adapter, and hopefully they will serve my perceived upgrade path towards super35 sensor.

    I will contemplate the fast Noktons, and the SLRMagic products .. manual lenses all the way.

    There will always be feature to wish for, mostly I now hope for Genlock and PSF via the SDI.

  • @ 010101

    I'm quite familiar with the BMCC's crop factor, and as longtime GH1 & GH2 user I'm comfortable working with it.

    On the BMCC, the FOV of a Tokina 11-16mm at the wide end is about equiv. to using a 18mm lens on S35 16:9, about as wide as most movies typically shoot. A lens like the Sigma 8-16mm lets you go wider, about equiv. to using a 13mm lens on S35 16:9.

    But I'm not saying the above lenses are perfect for most productions, just that they'll be very useful for many of the productions that I work on. And when they're not, we'll use something else. There's not 1 perfect camera or lens for every production.

    In any event, I think the BMCC m43 is great. For productions that need it, it'll be awesome. My point is only that it might not be the right camera for me to wait for; I'd rather get a BMCC EF as soon as possible and start working with it. But I definitely understand why other shooters want the BMCC m43 ASAP.

    Hopefully next year I'll get a BMCC m43, too. I prefer to have a backup/alternate cam for additional coverage, or as relatively inexpensive insurance for when things go wrong.

    Cheers.

  • @rockroadpix

    Unfortunately, electronic m43 lenses such as the Lumix 7-14mm, or 14-140mm, or 20mm, etc. don't work on the BMCC m43's passive mount. Electronic m43 lenses require an electronic mount to enable them to focus, set aperture, IS, and zoom (if it's one of the new motorized zoom lenses).

    The BMCC m43 passive mount is primarily for use with new manual lenses like those from Voightlander, SLR Magic, etc., or PL cine lenses, or legacy lenses like Nikkor F, Canon FD, etc.

  • I shoot faces primarily, so I'm good.

    With the MFT, I may reconsider getting the Pana 7-14. I'm sure that can get me some nice wides...

  • @peterdv_dot_com, An iPhone 4s cam in hand is worth more than four BMDCC-MFT - because BMDCC-MFT doesn't exist yet. I pre-ordered the camera just after NAB and as you mentioned it will work most of the time like a charm. But when you have to shoot wide even that Tokina 11-16 feels like 28-35 at best. As soon as the MFT model is out this one becomes the backup camera or B-cam for us. As a reminder again, your beautiful Nikkor primes ( 24/35/55/85 ) will function as ( 58/85/135/200). Great if you are distant shooter but for me as interior shooter that is a great disadvantage. Again EF lenses are great. If you are distant shooter you are golden. Extreme wide shooters have to wait for MFT model.

  • EF vs M43 .. I have changed my camera order to m43 .. but I will still be buying predominantly EF lenses

  • @aria Sony E mount has a shorter FFD than MFT. In other words you can forget about such lenses on any MFT mount. (if that was what you meant)

  • @htinla The SSD is removable. Take it out of the camera and plug it into your NLE workstation.

  • Couldn't some of you just rent a BMC EF in the meantime while waiting on the BMC MFT? I would think it just makes more sense to have the MUCH more flexible MFT mount version. This way no matter what glass comes out you'll have the option of using it!!! I am very curious about the new Power Zoom Sony has been packaging with the NEX EA50 and VG30. That lens seems like a nice target for a GH3 or BMC MFT.

  • Someone in another thread said, "An EF BMCC in the hand is worth two m43 BMCC in the bush".

    I tend to agree.

    All things being equal, the EF BMCC may ship in "volume" weeks or months before the m43 BMCC does. Maybe. Who knows. But my guess is the EF BMCC I pre-ordered in mid-April will be in my hands and working for quite a while before m43 BMCCs are readily available.

    The EF BMCC will work great with my old manual Nikkor prime lenses (24/35/55/85, all f2.8 or faster) I already own, via the relatively inexpensive Nikon to Canon adapter I recently bought.

    The EF BMCC will work nicely with the Tokina 11-16mm I'll probably buy, once I decide to get either the Nikon (+adapter) or the EF version. Although a faster lens would be nice to have, I like the way f2.8 - f5.6 DOF looks on my GH2, so the Tokina's max. of f2.8 will be fine. I like that some of the auto features of the EF version of the Tokina are supported by the EF BMCC.

    Beyond that, there's a not-small selection of other EF-compatible glass out there, including via rentals in my town.

    If instead I got the "passive" m43 BMCC, lens choices are vast -- but what's the comparatively-priced equiv. for the Tokina 11-16mm or Sigma 8-16mm for m43 or PL? -- and I don't own them.

    If I don't get the m43 BMCC I'll "miss" not having the option of using PL cine, manual m43 & other lenses.

    But I won't be able to miss it until at least "December" (or will it be Jan.?, Feb.?, Mar.? ...).

    In the meantime I can be profitably shooting with my EF BMCC.

    Or my eff'n BMCC as I may start referring to it. ;-)

    And, later maybe get a m43 BMCC as a 2nd cam next year? Something else to look forward too.

    Cheers.

  • @Brian202020, or anyone else...so how is one suppose to offload files from the SSD if the Thunderbolt connector isn't for that purpose?

  • Correction / Clarification. B&H is charging international orders on the spot. My son tried to place a pre-order for MFT version from Canada and they tried to charged him. Well - he said no.

  • @sammy, it is said that DNxHD has the same visuals quality as ProRes422-HQ. Some argue DNxHD has more efficient compression algorithms than ProRes. We use both and quite frankly I stopped giving importance to these things on the way from 2008 recovery. Nobody cares - as long as it looks good(er) on Vimeo and the audio doesn't fall off synch on YouTube.