-
First of all, I would like to thank all of you guys for your work and feedback so far. Per ( @thepalalias ) and me have been talking about making sure that all of you have a voice in the project and I see that he has been doing a pretty good job about that already. Thanks Per!
@B3Guy Wow! Thanks a lot for all that creative feedback. Regarding the shooting/editing directions on the script, I would say that it doesn’t exist such a thing as “the correct way ” to write a screenplay. It just depends on the kind of people who’s going to read it in the first place. Here, all of us are shooters more or less and the script doesn’t have to go through a Hollywood-like filtering system. That’s why I included all that info. In any case, there’s still lots of creative room for directors and cinematographers to use their personal vision in each scene. Also, the little technical info that I include is not something set in stone. It can be improved before and during the production stage. I got your point but the particular needs of this project make it necessary that everything, starting from the script, establishes clear guidelines to avoid delays as much as possible. So, those directions should stay in my opinion.
Your kickstarter idea is great, man. If we do it, let’s just do it in a way that doesn’t affect the schedule and pace of the project. Oh, and this short is just a prologue pretty much independent from the feature. For all intents and purposes we could consider the feature as a sequel to the short. So, don’t worry about the narrative arc of the feature because that’s a completely different venture. Thanks again for all the useful input!
@thepalalias On scene directions, etc I agree 100% on almost everything you said. So, I won’t add more. And yes, Storyboards are a terrific tool but let’s skip them for the short-movie or else we’ll end up delaying everything too much. How about Shot Lists?
@driftwood Hey Nick! Thanks for that pdf file! I used the .doc so everyone could easily include notes, correct typos, etc.
-
@rajamalik Would you like to share your thoughts on this, too?
@B3Guy The general approach I have aimed for with scene directions is this. The actors should have a very clear idea of their performance from the script alone and the director should help them to build upon that and take it further, really getting a chance to develop things rather than having to come up with a micro strcuture for the acting in the scene to start with. With that in mind, the script does not specify type of shot, just the content of some of the scenes. Physical descriptions are very sparse except as an illustration of the characters state of mind at this point, though editing comments may be more specific. It is my intent that either the director (or storyboard artist) be presented with a very clear sense of what is in the scen and what people are doing, but that the style and presentation of that be left much more up to them. The editing directions suggest an initial editing approach that the film editor (s) should start with but can easily replace if they come up with something superior.
The trick is ( like you said) that in order to uniify the film, a very clear vision needs to be presented. If we can use storyboards to do that, then that is even better. But the storyboard artist would still need to start off from the kind of descriptions being given here, because there is no overall director to step into the room and has out the ideas with them. So it falls on the shoulders of the scriptwirter and editor instead to make it clear.
Do we have a storyboard artist assigned yet? If so, I would love to hear from them about whether the script is giving enough detail to get started at this point.
The other aspect is that we want to start shooting really soon. For the full film there will be time for each director to craft their own vision via storyboards etc more, but on this part (the short film), it may slow things down if the director has to do a back and forth with script team or producer like that, and it is better for the script to just get the idea out there in a pretty clear way so that the director will not have to "check their intrepretation" so to speak.
Anyway, that is my thinking so far. :)
-
r just having a (mostly done) 20 minute + comment erased by my phone, I will be relying on shorter consecutive comments in this thread to avoid losing work. I hope no one minds. :)
@driftwood Thanks for posting the PDF conversion.
@johnnym I would love to hear any thematic ideas you have for the locations or characters after reading the script.
@paginate There is another edit coming up within a few days, so if you read this one do it more for contwnt than for typos. The next one will definitely need your proofing.
@L1N3ARX @imaginate @sebasp1 @Tomaso @lolo @andres @elenion @eoshd @chef @Athiril @ignatius @kong @davhar @Hallvalla @astraban @mimirsan @sohus @perder @reckless @Greek_M43 @Exilenorth @stip @jweeke @aksel @TraumManufaktur 8 months ago this project was just a concept and all of you have been a part of bringing it to where it is now: on the verge of starting production for the trailer/short film that will introduce it to the world before full length feature begins. NOW is the time to go the extra mile and weigh in because if you do not like what the script is doing now, you will not be happy with where it takes all of us in the months to come.
The production of this movie is the first of its kind and all of you are helping write the story of what that will become. This is not about "too many cooks in the kitchen", this about creating something that the audience can love as much as we do, and each of us can represent a different parr of that audience. There is little chance that everyone will be pleased with every part, but if you do not share your voice, the odds of liking what it ends up being are far lower. :)
-
@B3Guy Thanks, I am really glad you are taking the time to provide so much feedback. :)
Rather than provide my own thoughts at the moment (other than to say that I believe the project will be enhanced by the feedback people provide) I would like to ask some of the other people to give their thoughts.
@driftwood @rrrr @kihlian @vitaliy_kiselev @bressonftw @trackzillas(If I am spelling anyone wrong please help me out because I am doing this on my phone) What are your thoughts on the script and on what @b3guy has mentioned so far?
And @sanzadez, what about you? I plan to talk with you in more detail about things this weekend if you have time.
And of course, @AtticusD and I will be reading through ALL of this before the next conversation.
Oh - one other thing - I have started developing piano themes for each of the characters. Just early brainstorms (and likely to end up with entirely different arrangemenets, likely not including piano) but I thought I would mention that in the context of "attention to detail" for the sound (and music).
-
One thing to be aware of . . . there are a lot of specific shooting/editing directions (All the "Cut Tos" just to mention the obvious). I don't mean to squash your vision for the film or to say we have to change this, but it is something to consider. I've been taught not to "direct the director" in a script. You're specifying POV shots, fade-ins, cuts, off-screen, now-in-frame, etc. I understand that you have in your head a vision of this thing, already shot, in the can . . . that's good. Its also true that we need to have a consistent and unified vision for how it will be shot and edited. All I'm wondering is . . . does that need to be stipulated in the script?
I think it would be great to see a bare-bones (no "direction") version of the script, then to see storyboards of it from whoever would like to take a crack at it. I for one imagine this thing working really great with more abrupt and jarring cuts between the scenes. This guy is, after all, literally jumping from person to person. The cinematographic style could reflect that in a unique and wonderful way if we plan it carefully.
One thing I am EXTREMELY exited to see in the script is attention to sound. After working sound on a budgeted short film, I know that sound gets the short end of the stick when actually, a carefully planned sound can be every bit as powerful as the image on screen. Some sound direction in script is healthy I think, just to remind directors, "HEY! here's another tool in your bag!"
We can go about this however we want, of course, but I would be more comfortable if the script left the cinematic style to be figured out later.
Also, I just realized . . . its 10 pages, right? Thats a 10min film right there, or 1/10th of a film . . . give or take. Is the story/character moving fast enough/far enough in 10 pages? It could possibly be tightened up. What is the big moment for our character? Is that coming up soon? Could we tighten up what we have here now and maybe make it to that point in 10 pages? (If not, how many pages to get to that point?) If we can fit the edge-of-your-seat-what-will-happen-next moment within our trailer/short, THEN we'll have people interested (and willing to throw cash at a kickstarter). I think we should be giving people a taste, a teaser. Even if later we add in scenes before or between what we put in this trailer, it should skip the non-essentials and just hit the few main points leading up to the first big moment.
As far as a kickstarter goes . . . I think whoever is involved in the trailer is going to have to pitch in a bit to fund whatever we need for the first round. ONce we have a trailer, we have evidence that this is going somewhere . . . something to actually SHOW on a kickstarter . . . then I think we should certainly kickstart for the full film, with all extra $$ going to VK of course.
Sorry for the novella ;) Let me know what you think, these are just one person's thoughts and opinions among many, and I know you've been working very hard, which is appreciated.
-
@b3Guy Definitely an option. Suffice to say, since the delivery is off-screen, the director will be given a few alternatives to have the kids run through, and the most natural delivery will be chosen. So the list might have your suggestion, and just "he is coming" (except a contraction, but the earlier typing issue applies), as well as a few regional options, etc.
I trust that the director and kids will be able to give a natural delivery appropriate to the area, so I will not worry about it anymore. Thanks for pointing out that the original was awkward - the final one will not be. :)
Any other thoughts? What are people thinking about the amount of scene directions vs dialog? Are the visual descriptions sufficently clear or do people want more detail? Things like that. :)
I gave the current draft to some of my writer friends to get input on whether any other parts of the dialog, so hopefully it will be even more fluid later this week. But I think that this is pretty much what we are about to start preparing to shoot.
Other than dialog refinement, is there anything anyone would like to see addressed before we start dividing up the work in a few days?
Also, I was thinking that it might be nice to use the trailer/short to get a kickstarter project going to help fund the minor expenses for the film. What I would really like is if we could raise enough to provide funds for VK to help maintain the site and to get several cameras for the next round to help his hacking.
What does everyone else think?
-
@b3guy Holly is communicating something more along the lines of "you are such a dork, but I like you" (except with a contraction, but I cannot use apostrophes on this phone). So nothing deeper there, but it can certainly be re-worded to be less open-ended.
I considered using something like what you mentioned for the kids but decided against it. The problem is multi-faceted: try to stay current and it will date very quickly. Think about the teen slang in 90s movies viewed now. Basically, the idea is to keep it simple and timeless and not make it seem like we are "trying" too hard. But I think the director may be able to pretty much help the kids imrpovise a couple more natural variations, the way the kids would normally do it, so that we have options in editing.
Thanks so much for being the first to comment. :)
Also, @AtticusD and I will definitely talk about those two parts during our next editing session.
-
It flowed pretty good, dialogue seemed fairly natural. The only awkward part was the kids saying "let's get out of here". Most young people would just say "let's split", or "lets bounce", some thing shorter with a slang word.
I also didn't get what Holly meant by "You know, from the moment I laid eyes on you, I knew you must be one of those lovable weirdos."
Is this supposed to let on that she knows more about him than she is telling? Or that people like Peter are common within the world of the film? If she just thinks he's insane or schizophrenic, would she talk to him about it so directly? I'm sure I'm just missing something, maybe a rewording of it could help.
-
So, the script is up! Now everyone read, proofread, comment, chaos... whatever, just take a bite out of it and enjoy! :)
If everyone can read it soon, we can quickly start dividing up work. How cool would it be for everyone to be able to start pre-production for their teams next week!
-
@B3Guy Thanks, much appreciated.
As far as groups, I am afraid I do not know many - I can always count on an immeadiate family of published writers to help me when I need it and I typically charge for my own service (present project exmepted, of course). But what I do suggest (while you also try to find a good group) is to find some of the short story authors that write dialog in a way you really enjoy through journals like American Short Fiction (and they are particularly useful due to the writer of the month they feature exclusively on the online edition each month) and study their writing style, as well as maybe contact them with questions about your best work. It can really help to grow as a writer to be critiqued not only by your peers but by people that exceed yourself either in experience or ability or both.
Anyway, I keep trying to convince some of the more prolific writers in my family to teach online classes on it, but I have not had a lot of luck yet. :) My little brother needs a bit of a break from teaching after his time in UNC Wilmington Masters Program teaching Intro to Creative Writing to focus on re-writing his novel and my mother has a tendency to over-exert herself between the demands of studio art and writing so I am waiting until she slows down a bit to bring it up again.
EDIT: But while I may not be offer much free peer review, I can offer a few basic guidelines and paradigms that I teach my introductory students in TransMediaEvolution (TME).
1) Your #1 assest in your creative output is your sensitivity and awareness. I not mean this in terms of your kindness and compassion (though these things can be assests in themselves) but rather in terms of the awareness through which you experience and process things.
2) Look for contrast and commanility in the way that you experience something. See if you can identify not only the typical reactions you have to content you enjoy or hate, but also additional ones you may not think about or discount as too basic. For instance, the presence or absence of tension or heat in muscles in particular areas when you feel serene about something you are reading or watching vs your physical experience of anticipation. The more you can home in on the information you provide yourself without having to rely exclusively on mental analysis, the more you can process the untapped feedback you are already getting and thus leverage your existing experiences.
3) The information in 1 & 2 can also help you in your ability to parse through your sense of the validity of external feedback.
Anyway, that is one aspect to the TME-ing and AME-ing processes I teach, based on my experience developing and applying the techniques since the mid-90s. But other approaches include the Dream Achiever Program that my father, Stuart Lichtman, offers to people that prefer a more intellectually orgnaized and structured process for overcoming challenges (creative, personal, business) based on his experience starting or running over 100 companies (including several Fortune 500s) and coaching various entrepeneurs and creative virtuosos (such as an internationally acclaimed classical guitarist).
I do not want to shove my family down your throat but I mention the variety of options that are taught within it so that you are aware of some of the less widely taught educational options to develop as an artist. In terms of finding more traditional communities, the first thing I would try is searching for a Facebook group.
If you start a community of your own, I would be happy to contribute articles on the creative process.
(End semi-solicited blog ;-)
-
Sounds good. I can certainly read it a few times to check for typos, etc.
A little off-topic, but does anyone know any good screenwriting online groups (and/or anyone want to start one)? I'd like to start writing more, but it'd be great to have a group of people to share stuff around with, get/give feedback, etc. When you live in the boonies like I do, there isn't exactly a screenwriting club on every corner, knowwhatimean?
-
-
Yeah, once the draft goes up, we could really use people to read through for formatting and typos only. AtticusD and I have been doing several passes of rewrites on the dialogue etc. but I know from my experience as editor-in-chief at various magazines and newsletters that I should not try to proofread (I do either content or catching errors but never both) - so I did not do any of that this time. :)
-
@RRRR I've been busy these last few days shooting for this other project: http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/2661/cooperative-effort-for-shooting-a-documentary with Konstantin (@GOODEMPIRE). But in 24 hours tops I'll post here a readable draft of the Stowaway Prologue.
-
Sounds good. I have a good friend that I know has shot in an Irish pub here in the Twin Cities, and he's talked about them as if they're pretty friendly to filmmakers. That being said, I'll be heading for NYC near the end of August, so I wouldn't be around after that. Perhaps a NYC crew could find the 4th story apt?
Minnesota also has incredible forests and natural areas. Google some pics, see if you think it might work.
Of course, if we have enough folks in Sweden, I'd vote for that locale. Some of my favorite films were shot there.
-
Update: The initial edits on the "trailer" script have been completed and @AtticusD and I are getting ready to nail down a few changes in the next day or two before posting.
Here is a list of locations we may need unless changes are made in this revision.
- Hollywood (or lookalike) bookstore (interior and front exterior). May change due to cost of permits around here.
- Irish/Celtic Pub
- 4th story apartment near a drain/sewer. Also street shots. Should be urban.
- Natural forest (preferrably Swedish)
The script currently looks like it is more "short film" than trailer territory, unless we switch gears and do an aggressive edit. @AtticusD has created three very interesting personalities so far and the script incorporates a reasonable number of locations without losing focus. The main changes I made during editing were slight tweaks to dialogue and the addition or modification of minor character details that differentiate a bit more from the cliches. Oh, and a few more scene directions.
Anyway, I edit and read through a fair number of scripts and I have to say that I am quite unaccustomed to removing so little in the process. @AtticusD really seems to have trimmed most of the fat out before I ever got my hands dirty. :)
That said, there is always room for improvement. We will be needing input from everyone really soon. The editors will not be able to take every suggestion that gets made, but EVERY one of them will be heard and considered so PLEASE do not keep your thoughts to yourself when we put this up. :)
So: early draft of the script for the trailer coming THIS WEEK. Keep your eyes peeled. :)
-
@thepalalias No rush man. Just wanted to check in and make sure this project is still alive. Can't wait to see the script so we can get the ball rolling.
-
@sanzadez Still be worked on. My apologies - the ball is in my court and I've been too busy to even post on the forum for the last 11 days.
Next week (currently targeting Monday) you will be able to see what the script for the trailer is looking like and we will start dividing the work up.
Once again, sorry to keep everyone waiting.
-
@all The first draft for this Stowaway prologue is ready. Per will work his magic on it and I will try to address some issues that are still bugging me. Then the first stage of the first part will be a thing of the past. Thanks a lot to everyone who's participating on this. Together, we'll make something great. Just wait and see. I flight tomorrow to Czech Republic and will have little access to the internet for a few days. In any case, I'll do my best to try and keep in touch if you need me.
@thepalalias Hey Per! You've got email. ;)
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- Topics List23,912
- Blog5,718
- General and News1,331
- Hacks and Patches1,148
- ↳ Top Settings33
- ↳ Beginners254
- ↳ Archives402
- ↳ Hacks News and Development56
- Cameras2,342
- ↳ Panasonic984
- ↳ Canon118
- ↳ Sony154
- ↳ Nikon95
- ↳ Pentax and Samsung70
- ↳ Olympus and Fujifilm98
- ↳ Compacts and Camcorders295
- ↳ Smartphones for video96
- ↳ Pro Video Cameras191
- ↳ BlackMagic and other raw cameras116
- Skill1,959
- ↳ Business and distribution66
- ↳ Preparation, scripts and legal38
- ↳ Art149
- ↳ Import, Convert, Exporting291
- ↳ Editors190
- ↳ Effects and stunts115
- ↳ Color grading197
- ↳ Sound and Music280
- ↳ Lighting96
- ↳ Software and storage tips266
- Gear5,407
- ↳ Filters, Adapters, Matte boxes344
- ↳ Lenses1,577
- ↳ Follow focus and gears93
- ↳ Sound496
- ↳ Lighting gear313
- ↳ Camera movement230
- ↳ Gimbals and copters302
- ↳ Rigs and related stuff271
- ↳ Power solutions83
- ↳ Monitors and viewfinders339
- ↳ Tripods and fluid heads139
- ↳ Storage286
- ↳ Computers and studio gear559
- ↳ VR and 3D248
- Showcase1,859
- Marketplace2,834
- Offtopic1,314
