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BlackMagic: Official $2,995 raw cinema camera topic
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  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    The bad news comes mostly in the absence of true hot-plugging like on the Mac: if a device isn't plugged into the Thunderbolt port on boot, Windows won't see it.

    Via: http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/12/thunderbolt-on-windows-gets-hands-on/

    Even more "good" news for BM.

    It is now clear that Thunderbolt will be present only in top few motherboards and few notebooks in 2012.

    So, BM is clearly Mac oriented product.

  • yeehaanowyeehaanow

    Isn't it about time the Mac guys get some love?? SOOOOO many things have been made for the PC that the debate is not even funny.

  • OedipaxOedipax

    @yeehaanow, as a Mac user myself, I'm always happy to see gear that will interface well with Apple products. In the larger production picture though, with Apple seemingly making big moves away from higher end users and shifting towards consumers, I guess it's a bit puzzling.

    Then again, maybe the BMC is more of a prosumer/consumer targeted camera.

  • TakumarTakumar

    This is a bleeding edge product, pushing the envelope.

    Any tech has a teething time.

    Do not fret, help is on the way... ;)

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/5829/a-first-look-at-thunderbolt-on-windows-with-msis-z77agd80

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Yep, Intel has informed us that we will see updated drivers for Windows certified Thunderbolt devices that will enable hot plugging under Windows as well as address some of the behavior we've seen.

    May be, sometimes, in the future :-)

    Thunderbolt will never be mainstream product just because it has core design flaw - instead of simple external PCI-E, it also requires all DisplayPort stuff.

    I clearly remember same company talking about VGA death many many years ago, and after this that DisplayPort will be the standard port used by all monitors. Almost forgot, they also intend to bury PS/2 each year in last 15 years.

  • bwhitzbwhitz

    @PapasArts

    "No, "jrd" did not say that (you're thinking of somebody else), and I disagree with that sentiment."

    Yep. It was me. I still agree with it. :) I like the Tiger Woods and Mozart analogy... it's just got to be in yer blood!

    @jrd "There are any number of highly successful filmmakers who didn't, and could never, succeed with a DSLR and a few thousand dollars."

    I doubt this is true. But anyways, they were probably VERY fortunate with connections and money and only learned how to "direct" the hollywood way... by telling talented people what to do and then taking the credit. I agree, it would be impossible for most of "these" directors to work with a DSLR and a few grand... becaue they don't know how to make films. They only know how to tell others how to make films. :)

  • mrbillmrbill

    @bwhitz - seriously now, do you really, really think Hollywood functions this way? Do you really think Hollywood is full of successful directors who haven't learnt any craft at all?

  • johnbrawleyjohnbrawley

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev BMD have always been a Mac oriented company. I don't think that's news to anyone ! From their point of view they think this because that's where most of their market is. The creative industries are generally also Mac oriented.

    RE: RAW footage release, they are working on sensor calibration still. All my footage right now has dead pixels all over it. They are still writing the software that corrects this. There are also other bugs in there that cause some off issues with colour and artefacts. Now they know they can fix this, and already on my own blog there are lot's of complaints about hot pixels. Even when you tell people it's not finished, they still froth at the mouth. BMD would love to release some footage, but they are sitting on their hands until it's better than what it currently is....

    jb

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @johnbrawley

    Thanks for clarifications. While I do not share all this "Mac oriented" thing. I think it is biggest BM error from business side of things.

    RE: RAW footage release, they are working on sensor calibration still.

    I truly believe that it is possible to calibrate one camera and make temporary software to correct produced RAW files.
    It will be fair for people who are preordering their product but have no idea about produced results.

  • johnbrawleyjohnbrawley

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    you can't argue with their "mac-ness" of their business if that's what got them to where they are today ! They have grown very quickly. A lot of people forget that the CEO started the company from scratch only a few years ago and they are now a very big concern, mostly off the back of Mac users. They are making money and doing very well... Well enough to decide to fund and decide to build a camera from scratch. Something that is not cheap at all, especially in the time they have done this...(a lot less than a year). They have PC support as well..they just lean towards MAC because that's where there customers are and what they know. It's dumb to have Mac Vs PC arguments, but the fact is, thats where they have their niche.

    It's only Dealers that are accepting pre-orders, not BMD. BMD have a lot to prove and they know it. I'm sure if the software was that easily done, they would have done it by now. They know everyone wants samples.

    jb

  • kavadnikavadni

    I haven't had a Mac since 1997 when I ceased work for Avid in Australia.

    I've watched BMD closely for a couple of years .. about a year ago the PC support started to get better.

    I now have: Hyperdeck Shuttle 1 Hyperdeck Studio ATEM Television Studio The GPI/Tally interface 2 Smartview Monitors .. which incidentally supports 2K for $895 and 3 of their mini-converters

    I still edit on Avid, about 6 months BMD products became Avid certified. When cashflow allows I intend to get one of the BMD I/O devices

    What I don't understand is why some people seem to think that thunderbolt is a Mac only technology .. it was developed by Intel. If Mac's had not switched to Intel chipsets, Macs would not have thunderbolt .. correct me if I am wrong

    And a couple of days ago thunderbolt became available on an MSI motherboard http://wccftech.com/msi-unleashes-z77agd80-motherboard-featuring-intels-thunderbolt-technology/

    Me, I'll wait for a board from Intel themselves to replace my S5000XVN

  • shianshian

    I'll get to play with one on Wednesday, I'll report back my findings.

  • kholikholi

    Curious if they'll actually let anyone touch the camera on Wednesday... might not even go.

  • shianshian

    the email I got said "hands on", so I'm assuming yes. I just hope they have something interesting to shoot rather than just charts and stuff. The last Panny demo I went to, they actually had a small, lit stage with actors.

  • BuellerBueller

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev Yes I will be at the BMD Event on Wednesday. Here is the itinerary they send me.. Thank you for registering for the Blackmagic Event on Wed May 16th at the Burbank Airport Marriott Hotel!

    This event will run from 11:00 AM until 7:00 PM so feel free to come by any time to see our products and speak with our team.

    We will also be running theater style seminars throughout the day.

    • 11:30 Customer Keynote: Ramy Katrib, CEO Digital Film Tree
    • 12:00 Adobe CS6 & Blackmagic Workflow
    • 1:00 Avid MC6 & Blackmagic Workflow
    • 2:00 Blackmagic Design DaVinci Resolve 9
    • 3:00 Adobe CS6 & Blackmagic Workflow
    • 4:00 Avid MC6 & Blackmagic Workflow
    • 5:00 Blackmagic Design DaVinci Resolve 9

    We also will be running a raffle for this event. When you pickup your badge at the venue you will be registered for the drawing we will have after the event.

    Prizes include: DeckLink HD Extreme 3D+, Intensity Pro, DaVinci Resolve Software, Adobe CS6, Avid Media Composer 6, PNY Quadro 4000, and a Promise Pegasus 4 HDD.

    Thanks again for registering and we'll see you at the event!

    Blackmagic Design

  • BuellerBueller

    @johnbrawley Good to hear they understand the "get it right" part.... Woz says Hi

  • shianshian

    @mrbill I can tell you first hand that I've worked with a number of directors who are absolutely clueless, they have degrees from USC, and are totally inept. If not for the teams around them, they would be utterly helpless. They can't wrap their heads around how something will be cut together, don't know shit about cameras, apertures, focal lengths, editing, scheduling. They are seriously incompetent, and yet are making shit-tons of money with no end in sight.

    I forgot to add: couldn't direct an actor to save their lives. (cuz the DP and the AD are stuck doing it, or the actors are directing themselves out of desperation)

  • kholikholi

    Who's gonnabe the first to get kicked out for trying to shove an SSD in? xDDDD

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    17.05 Sensation! Stolen BM Cinema Camera measured only 10 stops in RAW mode, with 20% of pixels being hot ones. Horrible low light sensitivity detected. :-)

  • stipstip

    From my experience the whole 'creative industry is Mac oriented' thing is pretty much yesterday.

    17.05 Sensation! Stolen BM Cinema Camera measured only 10 stops in RAW mode, with 20% of pixels being hot ones. Horrible low light sensitivity detected. :-)

    yeah, disappointing, I'll return it tomorrow.

  • bwhitzbwhitz

    @shian

    Yep. I think most people would be surprised at how many "star" directors wouldn't be able to make a film if they had to perform any measurably objective craft... i.e shooting, editing, set design, themselves. The "hollywood" style of directing is, unfortunately, mostly a ceremonial position of opinion giving... not for people that actually have vision and are able to execute it.

    At a industry school like USC, you more-or-less just learn the mental gymnastics required to internally justify taking credit for so many people's work. You also learn how to talk like your vague-general ideas are actually "visions". And what the jobs of other students who don't have writer/director/producer parents will be doing on your set... so you'll be able to pretend/explain that "directing" means you shouldn't be doing any of these jobs.

    :)

  • shianshian

    What a piece of crap!!!! This thing needs to go back in the oven.

    Where to begin???

    Framerate limited to 24, 25, 29.97, and 30fps

    White balance limited to presets ONLY like a fucking cheap point and shoot.

    Shutter angle limited to presets ONLY (360, 270, 180, 172, 90, 45, 17??? No 144 for fluorescent flicker reduction)

    ISO LIMTED TO 400, 800 and 1600 with no plans to change this!!!!! (native 800)

    I metered the room at 1600ISO with my handheld meter and it gave me a 9 1/3 EV, f3.5 reading more than enough light for that Canon 3.5 zoom they had on, set the camera to 1600, 180 degree shutter, aperture stuck wide open, and the image on the reference monitor was clean (almost no noise), but dim and dull. Looked very underexposed.

    None of the techs could tell me how many stops between 50% and 80% or 50% and 20%. WOuldn't let me hook it up to Ultrascope to find out for myself.

    Will require 3rd party adapter to prevent ruining the camera the first time someone steps on the SDI cable and snaps it off from the inside. Not a sturdy card/connector build.

    No Audio monitoring yet, but in the works, and you can adjust the levels in cam.

    Touch screen menu is very nice, intelligently laid out. Not gonna be fun for people with fat fingers though.

    Internal battery still blows.

    You could toggle between 2 settings for gamma - film and video, (neither one seemed to change anything. Probably because the cam was stuck in raw mode, and wouldn't switch to anything else)

    for $300 you can buy a BMD SDI to HDMI converter so you can continue to use a cheap monitoring solution, except for the $300 you have to spend on the adapter box.

    No False color or onboard Waveform (which i was hoping for) - You can plug thunderbolt into computer and run ultrascope, so plus and minus there.

    Stuff they say they are still working on:

    Zebras are a simple off and on switch, no way to dial up the limit on them. They say this might change

    They say they will have a manual white balance on release

    Right now no way to control lens from camera, so all Canon lenses are stuck wide open. (They say this will change on release)

    Verdict: wait on this one. cancel your pre-orders, wait till they get their shit together. Wait for maybe firmware version (what's RED up to now, 31???)...ver 31.5.1

    Didn't stay for seminars, the place was pretty packed, and I was so disappointed with the cam, I could give a fuck about the workflow.

  • PhilldaagonyPhilldaagony

    @Shian, sounds like the early adopters might be find themselves with a nasty case of buyers remorse.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @shian

    Looks like you had been very disappointed.
    Sad that did not stay for workflow seminars.

  • pvjamespvjames

    @shian: I tried going to the event but couldn't manage it. I'm not an early adopter of anything but i hope they can iron out the most important issues. Not completely surprised. I would expect at least another year for the next version of cams to have some stability. Next NAB should be interesting to see how the other companies respond.

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