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BlackMagic: Official $2,995 raw cinema camera topic
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  • MacalincagMacalincag

    @No_SuRReNDeR

    I'm not so sure what the pros and cons of a high native ISO, but I can tell you that the Alexa has a native ISO of 800 as well.

  • csynccsync

    What it comes down to for me might be the crop factor. From what I can tell, there just are only a few lenses that will get you wide in this mount.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I made small page about BM camera at wiki
    http://www.personal-view.com/faqs/blackmagic-cinema-camera/blackmagic-main-information-and-specifications

    We'll have FAQ at wiki also soon. You can PM me if you can help with it.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    NAB videos about BM camera collected in one place:

    http://www.personal-view.com/faqs/blackmagic-cinema-camera/video-reviews-and-previews

  • Xenocide38Xenocide38

    @No_SuRReNDeR

    From my understanding, a higher native ISO means that's the ideal performance point for the sensor. Go higher and you introduce more noise, go lower and you lose dynamic range. It's not like higher or lower "native" ISOs are better or worse, it just comes down to what you want the camera to be able to do. Some people want a camera that sees in the dark, others want to shoot daytime landscapes and there's always a tradeoff one way or another.

  • No_SuRReNDeRNo_SuRReNDeR

    @Xenocide38 I see.... but I guess wheat I'm curious about is wouldnt footage for theatrical stuff be really damn noisy at 800? Or is the 800 ISO as clean as say 160 on Gh2 given the same light levels? Not that GH2 footage is EVER clean but you get my point.

  • PhilldaagonyPhilldaagony

    @No_SuRReNDeR if you're concerned about the 800 asa rating don't worry until we see final test footage from production models. The Arri Flex has a native asa of 800 and that camera does alright in the cinema world.

  • Xenocide38Xenocide38

    @No_SuRReNDeR

    Having shot with the Alexa and EPIC both rated at native ISO of 800, I can say that yes they have a little more visible noise at 800 than the lower levels, but certainly not an offensive amount.

    This is similar to the "native" ISOs of the Canon series where some people say 160 is native since it has less noise while others say it's 100. Doing some research it appears the native ISOs for the Canon cams are the 100s (100,200,400,800,etc), the 160 values are digitally lowered which covers noise but also decreases dynamic range. Does 160 look better? Well it depends on what you want, do you want less noise or more dynamic range?

    We'll see how the Blackmagic camera does but I'd bet 800 is pretty good. I think most new sensors will be rated around that point since it seems to be the new sweet spot for dynamic range and noise.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I made FAQ in our wiki

    http://www.personal-view.com/faqs/blackmagic-cinema-camera/blackmagic-cinema-camera-faq

    We'll have dedicated topic for FAQ maintanance:
    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/3011/black-magic-faq-maintenance-topic#Item_1

    Let me know if you have some questions or can share some information that I don't have.

  • JMZJMZ

    @jrd

    I've shot in SD, HD and film. And you're right. Filmmaking is an expensive endeavor. And yes a camera is only a tool. But a camera like what BM is offering takes the cost of film stock and processing out of the equation. Then there's scanning (because most editing is digital) and proper storage of the original footage. Not to mention work prints and final prints. If that money goes toward the other components you mentioned isn't that a good thing?

    Most states have film commissions that can put you in touch with good actors. Last I checked, scriptwriting could get lonely but is pretty much free. Get a good script that people can get behind and maybe you will have actors come to you. Every big name actor was an unknown at some time. Or perhaps you can even use SAG Indie. Follow their rules and even the most modest budgets can have highly skilled actors. I know. I've done it.

    Lights, lenses and audio gear can be rented. And a decent sized city with a couple of production companies usually means you have freelancers who will work with indies for a reasonable cost and even help them learn a thing or two along the way. It doesn't cost a huge amount to enter festivals and many cities have arts councils and museums that will screen local work.

    Plus even top directors have advised students and indies to put their work online and promote themselves. For some it's not just about the money. I don't care if my students shoot on Pixelvision (heck I'd love to see the results) but sometimes you want to get past those who will sneer at your medium. It wasn't that long ago that festivals wouldn't take things that were shot on video no matter how good everything else might have been.

    I don't think Black Magic Design has become a new indie god. But now people with stories to tell have one more option. And let's face it; this camera fills a niche that no one - not Panasonic, Sony, JVC or RED - saw fit to address. So to our Aussie friends I say; well played.

  • brianlucebrianluce

    @JMZ Get a good script that people can get behind and maybe you will have actors come to you. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    This is true, actors need reels, LA has some actors that'll work for free or cheap if they like the script. There's a lot of them. A lot.

  • jrdjrd

    @JMZ

    I would argue that it's a mistake for very low budget productions to attempt to compete, in either performance or production values, with mass-market material produced at much higher budgets -- that it's very difficult, perhaps impossible, to make a persuasive conventional dramatic film without money. Most of the break-out low- and no-budget "successes" were more performance pieces and advertisements for indie film, than actual dramas.

    And I have yet to encounter anyone who has succeeded in making use of the kind of advice you're offering. It's true, in theory - in LA or NY, there should be hundreds of skilled unemployed actors ready and eager to do the work, especially if the writing is half-way decent. But once you start casting, it never seems to work out that way. They've got agents, they've got conflicts, they're afraid of the union, the unpaid casting director you're using doesn't want to get angry phone-calls from managers and agents, etc. If all this sound too carping and ill-tempered, I would just ask: how many great performances have you seen lately, in no-budget films? In part, this is because (I'd argue) a good part of a "great" performance is actually production value and the mood created by production value.

    And there's the small matter of writing, which is rarely, indeed almost never, any good, in large part because of the way the medium is organized in the U.S. You're far more likely in this business to encounter a self-described writer/director who can talk intelligently about financing techniques and camera technologies, than about theater or literature. This makes sense, given the nature and demands of the business, but it's a disaster for the films. And there's another difficulty: realizing well-written material is particularly challenging at low budget. Broader, less demanding and less dramatically ambitious material may actually be the better choice.

    Anyway, back to BMD: by all means, use it. I don't think it will stop anyone from sneering at low budget production, and I don't believe it alone will change anything, but if low and no-budget productions are easier on the eyes, so much the better.

  • peternappeternap

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev Thanks for the Faq Vitaliy! I've been seesawing back and forth on this and the Faq made the difference.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @peternap

    Thanks, I am trying to update it regularly now.

    Hope that we'll have more editors who could help us.

  • RRRRRRRR

    @jrd I'm guessing proximity to hollywood does not help when it comes to producing films with a small budget. IMO one should steer away from trying to emulate similar aesthetic values and look at the International Scene of Cinema instead. There's plenty of good work being done on small budgets; just not the kind of films you expect from Hollywood.

  • OedipaxOedipax

    @RRRR, couldn't agree more. It's possible to make very good work with very minimal resources but it will not be the next Peter Jackson or Spielberg epic.

  • JMZJMZ

    @jrd

    I respect you and your right to your strongly held beliefs but respectfully disagree. "Succeess" is a relative term. Some people make films for the same reasons others write or paint or sculpt. It's a form of expression; something they simply have to do.

    Also, just one example of indie made good in the actor ranks is Parker Posey. She did a lot of films because she wanted to act. Love him or hate him there's also Kevin Smith when looking at directors as well as Danny Boyle, Gareth Edwards and Darren Aronofsky. Sure most are big names now but they got their starts with low budgets and cheap (as well as volunteer) cast and crew. There are good actors, writers and crew outside of California and New York. Not all of them are born on the two coasts. Yesterday's unknowns had to have come from somewhere.

    And the previously mentioned advice isn't mine; it's been given by very successful directors, ACE member editors and ASC member DPs that I've met over the past ten years or so. At different times I was lucky enough to ask Kevin Smith, Gary Ross and Spike Lee what advice they would give to up and comers. Each said don't wait for the money; don't listen to those who say you can't; if you've got a story to tell use any camera you can get your hands on. I think there may be something to that. But as I said, we can respectfully disagree.

    My point was simply I think the BMD Cinema Camera will be a boon to those in the independent ranks who know how to wield it. It's inexpensive enough to own for some and should be a steal to rent for others. If it delivers what BMD promises it will be a great tool to add to one's storytelling aresenal. I never said a low budget labor of love could compete on all the same levels as a $200 million dollar blockbuster. But it almost sounds like you're suggesting that someone who doesn't have a few million lying around shouldn't even bother trying. Sorry. I'm not about to tell anyone that. And to hint that budget is the final arbiter of how "good" something is or how seriously it should be taken means Michael Bay has been shafted on his lifetime achievement awards.

    But this is a BMD camera thread. So I just want to say I think what the company is doing is great. I think I'll buy one after the first wave is out and the bugs have been found. I like the idea of being able to choose my workflow and choose lenses that suit the mood and tone I'm trying to achieve without breaking the bank. Certainly the camera alone won't make anyone famous. But neither did the Scarlet or the GH2. But maybe there will be a new wave of truly independent filmmakers who have the drive and the determination to push "low budget" or "no budget" work to a higher level.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I updated FAQ, and we also added workflow QnA on separate page.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Blackmagic Design Founder and CEO Grant Petty Audio Interview

    http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/blackmagic-designs-grant-petty-we-want-to-blow-your-mind

  • whynotwhynot

    FAQ page is great.
    Thanks

  • peterdv_dot_competerdv_dot_com

    AbelCine has updated their FOV Comparator. It now includes the Blackmagic Cinema Camera: http://www.abelcine.com/fov/

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I added preorders QnA page to FAQ

    http://www.personal-view.com/faqs/blackmagic-cinema-camera/orders-preorders

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Interesting thing is that Adobe does not guarantee you smooth workflow with CinemaDNG in CS6, as they did not work on optimizing it. So, it looks like idea to use completely uncompressed format and save money on development had been not the best.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Meet the BlackMagic Design Team in Los Angeles May 16th & New York May 24th.

    Blackmagic Design will host the Blackmagic Roadshow in Los Angeles on May 16th & New York May 24th. The event will include Blackmagic Design’s complete range of products. Design products and complementary workflows and solutions.

    During the day the Blackmagic Design team will answer your questions, give technical advice and provide 'hands on' product demonstrations.

    The event, which is free to attend, will include hands on demonstrations and theater presentations of Blackmagic Design’s products, as well as the first demonstrations in California & New York of the new products announced at NAB 2012, including the Blackmagic Cinema Camera, DaVinci Resolve 9.0.

    As part of the event, Ramy Katrib of DigitalFilm Tree will discuss new workflows and tools used at his LA based post production house.

    Event Details For Los Angeles:

    Event Details For New York:

  • bwhitzbwhitz

    @jrd "In part, this is because (I'd argue) a good part of a "great" performance is actually production value and the mood created by production value."

    True. I'd agree partly with this. DSLRs though, do offer enough "imaging power" to push you past this hurdle. So it's kind of irrelevant now. That was the revolution. They were never the best imaging tools, but they will give you that look that will make people take the material seriously. That, in itself, is HUGE. But the rest is up to the creative extent of the filmmakers. That is sole reason, IMO, that spawned all of the "DSLR hate" and negativity on the net. The truth is, allot of people liked the idea that the 35mm format was some illusive medium. It gave them a scapegoat for when their movies didn't turn out great. They could always just play the "hey, it's just a low-budget film" card. As if one day, if they ever got a hold of 35mm film, and a budget, they could make a good film. It was a nice mind game people could play. Instead of letting their brains come to the conclusion that they might not be able to achieve their dream (being good at film-making) they instead mystify it, and put it on some impossible pedestal that they won't be able to achieve. It helps protect the inner ego.

    Well, then along came the DSLRs and shit hit the fan. People didn't have an excuse anymore. That's about when all the "moire" and "aliasing" non-sense starting showing up everywhere. People's egos were upset that they might not really be good film-makers, so they tried to kill the messenger... DSLR cameras. Claiming they're "unsuitable for REAL productions" and other garbage. Well, guess what? It's all excuses.

    There is no magic that comes with high-budgets, or fallowing union rules, or "being professional", or bla bla bla. The truth is, if you can't make something that gets people's attention with a DSLR and a few thousand bucks... you're just not cut out for it. The truth sucks, but hey... it is what it is.

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