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GH2 driftwood hack in shootout with Canon C300
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  • @vladnik
    and the winner is GH2 because I own 2 GH2 and I can't afford F3.
  • Nice vladnik. Give a bit more blue curve
    & take out a touch o green
  • f3 slog vs gh2

    3 minute gh2 color corection in ACDSee photo manager ...
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  • I like this point JDN made:
    "The value of these tests, I find, is that it gets people talking about plusses and minuses of different cameras and how they compensate for those in the field..."

    That's it right? As JDN says, no matter what camera, we are obligated to compensate for shortcomings -- such as graduated filters for outdoor shots because of lack of DR. If we can't compensate, we need a new camera. I couldn't predict or work around or get used to the moire and aliasing of the Canon 7d, so I exchanged it for a GH2. It works for me. YMMV.

  • @JDN +1 (on your whole post at 8:12am)
    After watching these tests this weekend and going back and checking some of my shots from last week, yesterday, I decided to break out my CBL full color balance lens and started playing around with using that and then tweaking it a little for WB. The skin tones in your pic at 9:45 am today, is where I'd like my skin tones.
    Your post at 8:12am verifies what I learned this weekend and how to get there.

    Thanks for the excellent post on not just the white balance, but your take on the PB tests. It would take many more people and many more days to perfect a test. PB's test, while not perfect, will yield lots of information and this forum and others should give many ideas for peeps to test out and better their film making skills.

    Long time ago a finicky camera friend of mine told me, get your new camera and then go spend days/weeks getting to know it inside and out. That's what separates the men from the boys. Getting the most from your tools.
  • I already asked to stop discussing PB in this topic.
  • JDN
    Some really great pointers there thanks for these. ;-)
  • By way of reference for skin tones, here's something uncorrected shot with the method described above -- balanced to a warm 1 card, on the panny 14mm with a black frost 1/8 -- key through a photoflex small softbox with grid (2 x 312 lights balanced to tungsten) with fill coming from 2 x 312 lights behind the water tanks (dialed down and turned slightly to daylight).

    Happy with the tone of the skin and results, although would have lighted a slightly larger lab so my back I could get some depth of field -- the camera is basically against the wall). And I wish I noticed the friggin lav wire slipped out!
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  • @JDN, +1
    Very well said. I read a lot of PB's blog and usually enjoy it. He's not going to come up with the end all be all test. SOMEONE will always say (and they have been) why didn't you use this camera? Why didn't you use test charts etc. Anyone that has read his blog knows that he does like the GHs. He's not going to be unfair to the camera. I don't think that he's going to be unfair to any camera. He just recently hacked his GH2, so he may not be used to it.
    However, I would never light someone that poorly like the skin tone test. Maybe that was the idea, see what you get with poor lighting.
  • @PhilipBloom thanks for the tests. Been shooting a $1 M doc with GH2 (f3, f800 and Alexa as A cams, just depending on what we're shooting, where we are and which owner-operator we're working with). Your screengrabs confirm what have become a few of my gh2 rules to live by. Not sure if you'd agree but here they are:

    1. Gh2s prefer to be at least one, maybe 2 stops underexposed. Especially with driftwoods latest patches which recover shadow detail, I personally believe the live histogram is a little untrustworthy. When I try to avoid clipping shadows I find that I often end up blowing out highlight detail and not getting skin-tones in the zone I want them. To my eye, the gh2 shot of the boat and bridge is suffers from this, however that said:

    2. The dynamic range of the GH2 isn't quite up for HDR type situations, such as that scene, with a dark foreground and big sky in the background. I've found for wide shots outdoors especially, 1/2 of the stuff I shoot on the gh2 has an ND grad in it. But the other point is that:

    3. Gh2 WB is very cold. Given the lack of latitude of 420, getting WB perfect the first time is so key. At first, that meant trying to get it right with Kelvin settings (especially when trying to match the 800). I found that worked reasonably well, but I was not entirely happy. Next was a manual white balance to a grey card. Much better, but still not there. Lately, I've switched to using a warm card 1 for most balances. I find it gets the skin tones exactly where I want them (finally!) but pushes the background too pink of course, however, adding blue in the correct evens it out perfectly without affecting skin tones. However one problem remains:

    4. Sharpness. Gh2, especially wide, especially with panny lenses, is too friggin sharp. So unless I'm using legacy glass, I always got a black frost 1/8th (at minimum) in front of it.

    The value of these tests, I find, is that it gets people talking about plusses and minuses of different cameras and how they compensate for those in the field. Anyone who does these tests is going to be criticized for their method, but this is a bit ridiculous because everyone will have different opinions of the best method (there is no objective best method). That said, regardless of which method is used, the tests usually reveal certain fundamental characteristics of a camera, and that is important for anyone who cares about their craft to learn. Not sure if it was you who said it or someone else, but each camera is a bit like a different kind of film stock and it is important to know it inside and out so it can be deployed when it suits the situation (and compensated for when it does not).

    Thanks for taking time to do the tests. Can't wait to see the full results. And although it goes without saying, thanks again to the guys who made this happen, specifically vitaliy and driftwood.
  • @danyyyel who is Vesubio?
  • The GH2 in this test, adjusted poorly, and could therefore only deliver this result
    Bloom may not work optimally adjust the GH2Stalin
    the test is therefore not real meaningful
    (sry my bad englisch)
  • I think of it like this: does Panasonic want that you read that the $600 GH2 is as good as the $6000 AF-100? I don't think so and I think that is one of the reasons there isn't so much talk about it on professional sites.
  • @PhilipBloom
    Thank you for your time and great tests.
    We should be very happy with GH2 compared to Investment=Quality ...
  • @Mimirsan, if I did not understand what you meant, my bad, I am sorry. But my point on the comparison stand for me. Lets take resolution for example. Until this shootout there was all type of post about the gh2 resolving power. Some where comparing it to RED (at 2k), others to Af-100 (see thread on the Af100) and there was even one guy (I personally think a troll) saying that it did not resolve more than 600 line about the same or less than a Canon 7d. Now with this test (if you download the 1080p version of the images embedded in his page) that the gh2 is a tie with the 1000 line C300. The guy/troll was saying that the gh2 would not be able to be projected on a big screen. If the C300 was projected on Paramount screen in LA then the gh2 is as good at least in terms of resolution.

    This is where such a test is important. Now we can leave this subject, we know!!! What the gh2 is capable of in therm of resolution/detail. It is not just some collective belief or self persuasion but quantifiable result that can be seen and judge. Unfortunately I cannot have access to all these camera and cannot know how they compare. Yes compare as the example above, if the FS100 or Af100 was No 4 (C300) I would have looked closely at them as a purchase. Why because I am no blind Fanboy (even if I am big fan of the hack and Vitaliy work and dedication of the community with Dritfwood in particular), if you could get such an image (DR seems very good but lot of banding in the background, could be jpeg compression) compared to the gh2, perhaps the $ 5000 investment would be wort it. But the test showed that it is not the case.

    I am not the biggest fan of P Bloom, because in some ways, he is one of the proponent of the video gear centric world. I prefer a thousand times someone like Vesubio who shot Musgo on a shoe string. But the gh2 is surely the least tested camera (in video). Everybody who has said they would do so, got very busy, got ill and just disappeared. Now as with everything I buy, I try to get some reviews to know if it is good and compare it to its competition and the gh2 is the same. I already did it by faith and seeing example, but even with all the flaws in the PB shootout, I can see now how it compares to its competitors. Now I know (we will have to see more of the shootout) that I can't get better result until I have $ 15000 in my pocket. But lets see another senario, should the Fs100/Af100 been much better like the No 4 image (DR mostly) the outcome of this shootout would have perhaps made me think seriously about buying a $ 5000 camera.

  • Actually, I would prefer native hbr/cinema bit rate at cinema setting fw 1.1. Am not sure the others have such a flat neutral setting. Also why is the GH2 so wide-angle c/w others? isnt this the opposite of what we usually get with!
  • @Elenion
    Thanks for the samples on page 4. Cineform SiLog sure did convert a rather harsh image to something more balanced and smoothed out, ready for the next stage of post. I am relatively new to GH2. I have Cineform Prospect HD/2K, and now talking with Jake at Cineform, I should do the cross/upgrade to Neo, so that I can import AVCHD and be compiant with Win7 system, my recently rebuilt edit box. @Vitaliy_Kiselev has been suggesting in a few threads that there are already some P-V topics on GH2 DR.
    I searched and found this gem: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/1062/dynamic-range-latitude-patches/p1

    @Elenion, et al, if anyone has more to add to the above thread, I should be pleased if we could expand further on the many ways we can setup and record GH2 footage maximising DR, in a way to manipulate the gamma curve. Cineform, applying SiLog via FirstLight looks great, however, I am also looking at changing the curve, to some degree, at the record stage on the GH2, beyond the, say, -2 -2 -2 -2 and existing curve options. @kholi talks about ND and ISO settings which I would like to know more about, the sweet spot. Perhaps a Low Con filter may be useful in certain situations, etc. I hope to explore further and have the knowledge base herein expand on the "Dynamic Range / Latitude / Patches" thread. Thank you.
  • @danyyyel
    Not sure how you read my ramblings???
    I see no problem in criticism towards the GH2 I have a problem that when there IS criticism a lot of GH2 owners get the hump on and either say something is shot incorrectly or using the wrong hack setting.
    Speaking of the hack...
    I dont understand the accusations of unfair biase against the GH2.
    Isnt the GH2 hacked (to a high end) in this shootout? yet not one other competing cameras like 7D,d7000,5n etc has a hack so if anything its giving a unfair advantage to the GH2.
    Funny nobody has really mentioned that.

    Really a fair comparison should be comparing the cameras with original firmware.
    So theres plenty of uneveness in shootouts. This is the problem with them. And why they should not be taken seriously.

    Theres ALREADY a (frankly annoying) fanboy base for the GH2 that shoot down everything else thats available do comparison videos/articles solely on the basis to harp on about how great the GH2 is and throw their toys out of the pram when someone says otherwise.

    You say
    "What this shootout tells me for now is that until I have at least $ 15000 to buy a camera, the gh2 is the best camera under that sum. How about that."

    Didnt you know this before the shootout??? All it took was Mr Bloom to tell you this and only now youre convinced?

    Why would a pissing contest tell you what you have is good enough in your price range? Its all subjective. Some people slap down cash solely on functions and form.
    Its the old age saying "Its not the size its what you do with it"

    Just because one guy does a shootout does not mean its gospel.
    If you are truly happy with the results from the camera you can afford/own why would you bothered about others that are out of your pricerange.
    Why do you have to be convinced that your low priced camera has better image than a more expensive camera? Insecurity?

    @Kong
    You speak the truth! +100
    Look forward to seeing your film!
  • For those interested in the Nikon D7000, I recently posted downloadable comparison shots of the GH1, GH2 and D5100 (which has the same image sensor and quality as the D7000):

    http://www.personal-view.com./talks/discussion/1195/nikon-d5100-compared-to-panasonic-gh2
  • I got the right answers as well. The way i figured it out was by pairing the looks of each pic. The Sonys, Canons, Nikon and Panasonics all matched each other. So this confirms what we should expect as far as 'look' from each company. I'm glad the Panasonic did the best (imo). Very impressed.
  • Chip Butties are French Fry Sandwiches with toast and butter.
    You can see the Philip Bloom crew here waiting for their French Fry Sandwiches
    http://propic.com/2YP
  • @danyyyel

    I've been afraid of the iContrast setting, could you link to that thread? I would love to see it.

    It sounds like it would help out with interior shots more than anything?
  • you also have the idynamic funcion, which looks a lot like a shadow boost on raw before compression, advantage being less noise that you would do it on the avchd file after record.
    There is a thread on it with more detail and example.