@vapourtrail I could have sworn that's what I read to. Thanks man!! I don't go on the BM Forum anymore. It's too crazy over there. And that's says a lot coming from me :)

and one could simply purchase one, shoot with it, and make a decision to either love it and keep it, or hate it and return it (minus the restocking fee)

A bit OT, but on that note, B&H (for one) has previously acknowledged (assuming the quote is accurate) that non-defective returned merchandise may be (and is) resold as "new", which is probably true of all retailers which accept returns, with or without a restocking fee (B&H doesn't charge one), whatever else they may claim.

It does seem unlikely a distributor would take back an item simply because a customer of the retailer didn't like it. That still leaves the "open box" sales approach, but those are usually items which have defaced packaging or are missing material, and could never pass as new.

@Kellar42

Not sure if you're still paying attention to this thread, but here's a random still from a moving shot screen capped:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8-f-XPnmOp6d29vYi1ub2UwS3c/edit?usp=sharing

It's the Sigma 18-35@2.0 with a Tiffen WW ND on it. The camera's overall "softness" still kind of lays over the image, but it's also pretty sharp IMO. You have some room to add sharpening as well, I didn't add any.

The mount is surprisingly solid and capable of holding a lot of weight. I managed to shoot handheld today with a Helios and a Sankor 16c attached to it. Excuse the softness of some of these takes. My aperture was open a bit too wide.

@peaceonearth I know it was and it didn't make sense. I was referring to people bitching about things they have no idea what they are talking about and at people who've never even touched the camera which seems to be the majority of the people who post here. I shoot with these cameras. I posted an image earlier and stated how much I like the camera. I asked about update and replied "Bummer" Not, I hate BM, BM is lying to us, BM should be held responsible. I said bummer. I knew there was a fix but couldn't figure out what was going on. For you to tell me to shut up and get over it and move to another camera when I only use BM cameras now and sing there praises makes no sense and yes, it pissed me off. Go back and read through everything. THIS is why certain people are dissapearing from this forum.

@MRfanny

Can you post an example? I'm not seeing it but I do remember the grey cast of the 2.5K, no longer plagued by that.

@kholi, I am and thank you for posting. That frame has 'organic/filmic' written all over it which is of course, big. Definitely feel the softness you describe laying over the image, but plenty of details seems to be there, so some people will post sharpen to taste, as you say.

I will be out this morning shooting again with my BMPCC. This time, I will try a variety of other lenses, and compare the results. Also this time, I'll be using a tripod.

@keller42 +1 re "organic/filmic". The images coming out show big potential for this camera.

@Kairutan Thanks for posting footage. Looks very nice and shows potential of this camera. I'm curious if you tried any sharpening yet, and if so, how the image responds to that and how well it holds up.

Ohhh, so that's just how the Log looks out of the camera, the muted "muddy" cast. Doesn't look like it was touched at all so that's what it'll look like.

Are you guys seeing it in footage after color or a curve? You kinda want to get it out of the Log space so you can work with it.

Part of the reason it feels muddy is that I think many people are attempting to apply an S curve to it, which is not what you want to do with this footage. My sense from a few days of filming that 18 percent grey is falling really low, and the vast bulk of the stops — 8 or 9 would be my guess, are above 18 percent gray, so if you are exposing for highlights, you are actually pushing most of your mid-tones on down into the bottom 25 percent of your negative (which is fine because you can lift them). But if you apply a S curve to the footage, you are turning everything from midtones down into mush. Adding to that, even in really dark situations, when I look at the footage on a waveform, there is sometimes not a true black, which contributes to the muddy feeling because without a visual reference of true black on screen, it will feel muddy.

I find I get very clear, non-muddy results by dropping the setup to legal or just below (usually -4 to -10) then raising highlights until they are just about to clip. Maybe lift gamma tiny bit (and then bring setup down again). But no S curve.

I think a lot of shooters on this camera will be coming from DSLR where S-curves are great because 18 percent gray is falling in the middle of your 8 or so useable stops. As a consequence, I think you can expect to see some really poorly graded footage out there.

Yes, everyone does understand you need to grade and possibly sharpen the footage right?

@kholi I think you're right about the FilmConvert stuff. Now that I think about it, all that footage is muddy. LUTs I use from the 2.5K work much better as starting points here.