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2K BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera, active m43, $995
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  • Filmconvert does compress the highs and lows (and the mids, for that matter). But it's useful for previewing and editing, if the system can apply it real-time -- and without the need of baking it in from the start.

  • Just got a call today from my dealer that my preorder camera was in. And I turned it down!

    The way I see it, neither Prores nor Raw will add anything useful to my line of work (Event shooting and personal projects) and I value the ease of use of the DSLRs over a few more stops of dynamic range and 10bit.

    I'm spending my money on the SpeedBooster/Sigma 18-35 combo instead once the Nikon version is out. For now the G6 does everything I need until Olympus gets their video act together or if the GH5 gets as good IBS as the OM-Ds.

  • @oscillian Wow... wish B&H would send my damn camera I ordered in flipping June. Well I can see why for what you do it doesnt work, I however do both that an Narative/Theatrical work and for me ... having this PLUS a GH3/GH2 etc... is a home run since I can base the camera choice on the workflow I need and I dont have to reinvest lens wise.

  • It's a little more than " a few more stops and 10 bit" but to each his own :)

  • This S-Curve thing makes sense. People's first inclination from very flat footage on a DSLR is going to be to throw an S-curve on the thing, and it sounds like that will cause trouble here with the way the camera is distributing the mids. I would expect Film Covert to work better, however, as their LUTs are custom for each camera, correct?

  • To be honest, I don't think most of the owners/users are apply a curve, they're just fidgeting until they can figure things out. Taking a look at the examples posted, you can see strange magenta/blue casts in mids etc., that's a sign of not exactly knowing where you're going or how to get there.

    I don't think Film Convert works well, personally, until you've pulled the footage out of a Log space.

  • @kholi could you elaborate a little on how to pull the footage out of a Log space?


  • @spacewig

    Preface: I'm pretty new to color (operating) and will start working in a DI theater for the first time this coming week, and from there on. So bare with.

    So log footage does need a curve. And not all Log footage's created equal: Alexa LOG C, in my experience, is different than Sony's S-Log, Canon's Log or C-Log, and Blackmagic's LOG which is BMD Film (I believe that's what they're calling it unofficially).

    Each needs a different curve, and that's where a lot of the learning at. I think Sony actually released their curve with the F55, but a lot of people weren't digging it.

    My knowledge is pretty limited (clearly) but I believe REC709 is considered a tonal curve, so in R9/R10, you look under the LUTs and you've got a Blackmagic to REC709 LUT that pre-applies the REC709 LUT specific to BMD FILM (LOG) to get it out of the log space.

    The issue is that REC709 is hyper-limiting, and almost defeats the purpose of shooting such a wide gamut. You have to fit all of it within this old spec that needs to be de-comissioned (and I think it will be soon, REC2020 is up for UHD right? Someone correct me).

    You can also use the Arri to Rec709 LUT as a starting point, but again it puts you into REC709 and you have to work around that.

    With the 2.5K, and shooting RAW (which will be the same with the Pocket Camera) you can choose between BMD FILM (which looks like the ProRes Log) or REC709 as the DNG color space option. We dug around in the footage for quite some time exploring the difference between the REC 709 option in the CinemaDNG tab, versus the REC709 LUT, and noticed that a lot of what we thought was gone or in-correctable with the DNG tab REC709 was actually just fine when using a LUT.

    Or better, when using the BMD Film setting.

    Right now, for Blackmagic footage (2.5K and Pocket) I'm using an INPUT LUT that I half-assed and a different combination of OUTPUT LUTS (Arri-to-709, Macrgregor's F35 S-Log LUT which looks to be a variation of the Arri-to-709, and the Kodak/Fuji to R709) as a starting point, and sometimes nothing at all.

    I'm also getting into an ACES workflow which is interesting, and exploring REC2020 IDT with sRGB or 709 ODTs for web delivery, to see how footage responds. Not completely sold on it because it's always changing (ACES is in development), and two, there's always a steady green spike on waves and scopes.

    Anyway, babbled enough, basically you just need to start with the right curve or make your own that looks great on your scopes.

    Edit here: I also think someone like Shian would be able to elaborate more on LOG if he's paying attention to the thread.

  • Anyone know which FilmConvert preset is best for Pocket footage? I have been using the BMCC film preset but I don't really like it, perhaps it looks like "film" but I would prefer a cleaner image. Maybe my problem is just with FilmConvert itself... Resolve Lite does not work on my computer for some reason ("QuickTime decoder initialization failed")... What are my options?

  • The 2.5K preset in Film Convert likely wouldn't work very well, the LOG from both cameras are slightly different, but slight is enough to produce vastly different results.

  • For you guys still waiting on cameras, I ordered a BMPCC from Adorama on Saturday and it shipped today, I should receive it tomorrow (paid extra for overnight).

    Even though I've been aware of this camera since word of it first leaked out, it was still kind of an impulse buy for me. I initially intended to get the 4K cinema cam instead. What it's come down to for me is ultimately I prefer a camera with SD cards, removable batteries, a smaller form factor, and some extra dynamic range. I can more or less treat it like a souped-up GH2 (at least, that's my hope).

  • @kholi which sigma (18-35) with which adapter did you use? thanks!

  • Right now I've got a regular cheap EF to MFT adapter and a Kipon EF to MFT iris adapter. I don't really recommend the Kipon, only because I have no idea what it's actually doing to the image when you stop down but it is an alternative if you aren't too critical about your footage.

    It also doesn't' vignette on the 2.5K or Pocket, because the sensors are smaller than standard MFT.

  • @Oedipax

    I called B&H and the rather irritated guy on the phone told me they were still shipping April orders ....... FACEPALM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I do however find it hard to believe that Adorama has a stack of cameras ready to ship, it does appear that way on thier website though....but I have a feeling they leave it like that so people will be lured into ordering. Also if you haven't worked with film or cinema cameras in narative may be disappointed with this camera and its appropriate workflow.

  • @No_SuRReNDeR, I thought the same thing about Adorama... I was really just putting in an order somewhere because I figured it would ship at some point, whatever. I've got a tracking number and my card's been charged though - so I assume Adorama's being honest about it.

    About the workflow, I'm aware - been using Resolve to grade my stuff for a while, and I've also been shooting RAW video on my 5dmk3, etc. A big draw for me here over the mk3 actually is getting prores straight out of the camera rather than the massive RAW files the mk3 shoots (which just leads to a lot of extra data wrangling I'd rather not spend time on for smaller projects). Heck I might even shoot video gamma in some cases, I guess I'll have to test it and see if I'm happy with the results versus log.

  • If you get yours let me know I am through with B&H and their BS.

  • @kholi thanks a lot m8! i am looking at the sigma aswell and am undecided whether i should pick the nikon or canon version, i guess both should work with an mft adapter on the pocket?

  • @Mirrorkisser

    Either would work. I think the Nikon mount would be more universal, though, because it should have an aperture lever on the back and would only require an adapter that can utilize that. EF version needs electronics. =T

    I'm probably going to switch to Nikon as well pretty soon, caveat's the barrel rotation direction.

  • @No_SuRReNDeR My GH3 is still available ;) Regarding the pocket cams though, forget B&H. Cancel your pre-order and just hound smaller dealers. I got mine through EOSTech in NY, I sent them an email expressing a desire to buy their next available camera and in a week I got a phone call telling me one was in. Received it the very next day.

  • @theconformist Not sure if I can cancel since they would have to refund me...I prepaid for my camera as well. I am having trouble selling my GH2 but if I can get someone local to nab it Ill have enough cash to buy that Gh3 Ill let you know when I do hopefully you still have it.

  • @No_SuRReNDeR You can still cancel, I cancelled mine with an agent at B&H via the Live Chat feature, they cancelled the pre-order and refunded me the (unused) SquareTrade extended warranties I had bought. Why did you have to prepay?

  • @theconformist I had to use my visa debit to pay and since I live paycheck to paycheck I couldnt have the uncertainty of a charge happening at a critical moment. Yeah I think If Adorama is actually shipping them I will cancel it tomorrow.

  • I think it is time to make separate topic for all this buy/cancel/preorder stuff.

    Guys, please make one and go to it to discuss such things.

  • @theconformist

    Ahhh, that's how you do it. I tried 3 times while they were on vacation for a month but didn't use that of course. Hints why I have another one coming this week.