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What are you guys using for audio recording with your DSLR?
  • What are you guys using for audio recording? I come from a XL-H1 with XLR inputs so I have no idea what the best options are with DSLR audio.

    I own the following microphones:
    - Rode NT3 (XLR)
    - Rode NTG-2 (XLR)
    - Audio Techno 1800 Dual wireless system (Dual XLR)
    - Rode Videomic Pro (3.5mm)

    I have done some research and these are options I am considering:
    - Zoom H4n, Marantz 551 portable field recorders with XLR inputs
    GOOD: XLR, portable
    BAD: pre-amps not that good, battery life, size
    - Tascam P2 HD or Roland/Edirol R44 field recorders
    GOOD: XLR, 4 XLR inputs, line input, sound quality, pre-amps
    BAD: battery life, size, price
    - Sony PCM-M10, Olympus LS11, Zoom H2/H1
    GOOD: small, cheap, good pre-amps, size, battery life
    BAD: no XLR inputs

    I would like to hear how you guys are recording audio and what works and what not (from your experience).
  • 155 Replies sorted by
  • Thanks you guys!

  • @Grimor

    Hi Grimor, record your audio at 24bit/48Khz and add gain in post. As long as your gear has a low noise floor you should be fine in post. The Tascam DR70 is exceptionally good value - I can add 20db of gain in post without having to worry about hiss due to its excellent SNR yet the unit sells for about a third the price of the MixPre D (I own the MixPre and hardly use it now) and includes a recorder that features Dual Recording mode (safety copy at lower level); I cannot overemphasize the value of this feature. Also, keep in mind that placing your microphone as close to the source of dialogue as possible (i.e. use a shotgun mic on a boompole instead of a camera mounted microphone) will massively help reduce overall noise. Lastly, do not waste a second worrying about the brand of your cables or connectors, this has zero practical impact on your sound. Feel free to PM me a link to one of your audio files if you need additional feedback (no pun intended :)

    Cheers

  • @Grimor

    Why not just settle for now on good noise reduction software?

  • Hi P.V. community! I'm trying to make short films on a budget. This is my audio gear at the moment:

    Senn MKE 600 Rode deadcat + boom pole Marantz PMD 661(v1) Van damme cables with neutrik xlr conector.

    However i get much better audio than in camera mics, i found it not enought loud and little hiss (noise in background)

    Whats the next step for boost my levels without boost the noise?

    Sound devices Mix pre D or MM1maybe? Cloudlifter or fethead ? Denecke ps1?

    Need some advise, becase i'm an audio-noob. Thanks in advance!

  • Limiters: Analogue vs Digital

  • Just in case :-)

  • In the SD-302 to Zoom H4N he is running two limiters. Much better to have one limiter.

    Wants to be double safe :-)

  • In the SD-302 to Zoom H4N he is running two limiters. Much better to have one limiter.

  • SD-302 to Zoom H4n

  • There's wired and wireless, and it's a big topic that is covered elsewhere on this site, but basically I like the Sennheiser system for wireless. Lots of people on this site have made their own comparisons as well.

    For wired, look at this page for starters http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/lavs_brockett.html I don't agree with him on studio type mics, but I pretty much do on wired lavs, except as noted below.

    I personally don't like the "TV" sound, like you hear on broadcast networks, for me it is dry and artificially harsh, like fluorescent light. So for wired I lean towards the DPA lineup, as well as the Sonotrim, and away from Sanken. But that is taste, and Sanken is used a lot in some productions. DPA makes great miniature mics, and you can use them for music videos as well as dialog. For a bit less money, there is the Voice Technologies VT-400.

  • Dr Dave, do you have a cure for clip-on microphones ? I mean do you have experience and knowledge that you can share on that matter ? Thanks !

  • I use zoom h4n + rode ntg1, all connected and set up on a shoulder rig for docu-style work. When I do paid gigs alone I find that I frequently use GH2 on-board mic for most important interviews and shit. If I had even more buttons to press in my recording chain, I'd probably use GH2 audio even more!

    I kick my sound gear a lot when I come to edit, so I can say that it is quite sturdy, and yes, it delivers decent audio (when rolling).

  • We use object oriented work flow--we start with the quiet, high quality recording, and work backwards through the signal chain. The most frequently asked question, that is, of the thousands every year--I know you get much more, of course, I can't imagine how you keep up with this site--is how to get rid of the noise and also make a good recording. This is how I get rid of the noise: I buy the mics and the preamps and the converters and the cables, and then I test them.

    Of course there are many roads, many ways to do this. If you buy a mic, and you think it is quiet, and it sounds good, of course that's partly subjective. I'm just saying most people will wind up with a mediocre product, including many TV, video and movie studios. Anyone is free to use my work flow, or anyone else's work flow. If Rambo says that ISK mic is good, I might just buy another pair in case they changed the formula. Because his opinion is usually right on. Why not?

    Testing is the only way to know. Want to know about a lens? Buy it or rent it, and try it out for a week or so. Same thing with audio gear. Most people will waste 20 hours reading stuff online, then buy something mediocre. They could have earned enough during that time to buy a really nice mic or lens.

  • For voice over I like the Studio Projects B1. It is better in all respects than the ISK, and has upgradable circuits. I purchased four of these for $85 or less on eBay, new, the price varies. I kept one, modded one (replaced the circuits and retensioned the capsule) and gave the other two to students.

    I am confused. It is different mikes for different tasks.

    I like the redesigned Naiant. The old one was good but a little noisy, the new one is very quiet at 15dBa. Caveat--this is a cheap mic!

    What mike exactly do you mean from http://www.naiant.com/naiant/microphones.html ?

    This is hyper capsule FR:

    image

    We are also talking about cheap mikes only here.

    But well made. I also like the Zoom recorders, and I always have my students buy the Zooms because you can also learn MS which is very handy for voice interviews if you have the right decoder where you can change the pattern in post.

    You mean here only build in mikes? As all small Zoom recorders usually have worst preamps compared to competition.

    Other budget, boom. Buy a used Oktava and a $30 mod kit, or pay someone a few bucks to mod it. It's a great mic, quiet, smooth treble and excellent bass extension for the mod. Cheap capsules which are excellent value.

    Hmm, Oktava is most suggested mike usually :-), with most amount of fake copies (including capsules) available.

    Measure extension, bass and treble: I use acoustic musical instruments, like double bass, pipe organ, handbells, flutes, whistles, and percussion. You can tell in 10 seconds if the mic can handle it, and the cheap ones usually don't. One thing you will find is more often than not, a cheap mic will have a "rumble bump" in the bass--basically, there is a bump in the FR in the range of 50-60Hz that seriously aggravates traffic and ventilator noise, fans and so on. The DPA 4006 is immune to this annoying sound, but it is expensive.

    Under measurement I mean measurement, not just personal opinion. Also, can you show me good condenser mike FR with big bump in 50-60Hz? From me measurement experience if you are doing it in real room FR of mike below about 500Hz is not super important as reflections will add much more inconsistency, especially in bass department (and it all change with place).

    Resale value: I sold a pair of Schoeps for more than double what I paid for them. Budget mics are hard to sell, and you sell them at a loss.

    And this make very little sense, as 99% of people won't be selling /buying mikes constantly.

    Overall value: if you add up the maybe fifty mics mics I bought in the $50-$100 range, none of which I ever use unless I run out of mics (like in a big orchestra with double redundant systems) I could have bought a matched pair of MK41s instead.

    Same here,

  • @scotchtape my Oktavas do not exhibit handling noise. Like any cheap mic, there are little platic bits inside, as well as the capsule mounts, that might become loose. I had one--and only one--one with a piece of a wooden toothpick that I stuffed into the capsule mount, it will probably last 100 years like that. Sometimes the XLR pins move in the shell, and sometimes the grounding screw is not adjusted properly. Maybe his copy had some mechanical issue, he doesn't say that he took it apart, and he doesn't say that he tested another sample, so you can basically discount any reviewer who doesn't check another sample when there is a noise issue. Could be his mic cable fit the other mics better, or any of a number of other things. Most of those Sennheisers, Schoeps and Neumans have actually overly snug fittings.

    The first thing you will notice with an Oktava is that the polarity is reversed. Since the reviewer doesn't mention that, it does make one wonder, but I think most of his conclusions are reasonable. He also chose the HC Capsule for the Oktava, which is not the one you want unless you are at a distance.

  • Test from different angles--yes, of course, always do that, easy to do. Not complicated.

    Other budget designs: For voice over I like the Studio Projects B1. It is better in all respects than the ISK, and has upgradable circuits. I purchased four of these for $85 or less on eBay, new, the price varies. I kept one, modded one (replaced the circuits and retensioned the capsule) and gave the other two to students. However, unless you replace the housing (which I did) it is heavy to boom. I never use them, I use my other, more expensive mics. But it is excellent for the price.

    Other budget designs, for boom--I like the redesigned Naiant. The old one was good but a little noisy, the new one is very quiet at 15dBa. Caveat--this is a cheap mic! But well made. I also like the Zoom recorders, and I always have my students buy the Zooms because you can also learn MS which is very handy for voice interviews if you have the right decoder where you can change the pattern in post.

    Other budget, boom. Buy a used Oktava and a $30 mod kit, or pay someone a few bucks to mod it. It's a great mic, quiet, smooth treble and excellent bass extension for the mod. Cheap capsules which are excellent value.

    Measure extension, bass and treble: I use acoustic musical instruments, like double bass, pipe organ, handbells, flutes, whistles, and percussion. You can tell in 10 seconds if the mic can handle it, and the cheap ones usually don't. One thing you will find is more often than not, a cheap mic will have a "rumble bump" in the bass--basically, there is a bump in the FR in the range of 50-60Hz that seriously aggravates traffic and ventilator noise, fans and so on. The DPA 4006 is immune to this annoying sound, but it is expensive. Huge difference, audible bass, but no rumble. Music, no noise. Voice, no truck. Here are sweeps where a guy left the fan on to show the rumble BS in the specs for different mics: http://www.audioimprov.com/AudioImprov/Mics/Entries/2012/12/4_Getting_some_distance.html

    Concert recording vs spoken voice: I personally think a good mic, whether it is a Coles 4040, the DPA 4006, the MKH 40 or the absolute industry standard, the MK41, is better on voice, whether sung, spoken, whispered or yelled. They also work well on instruments. I don't like the AKG for music, but they are good on voice and very quiet, they are a bit of an exception. They aren't as good as the MKH 40 or the MK41 for either voice or music, however.

    Hacking: if you are into hacking, the MXL 603 aka 991 is really cheap and you can hack it to sound better. It's a bit bright unless you mod the capsule, but the preamp design is excellent. You can pay someone to hack it, too http://www.oktavamodshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=119

    Noise: very few mics in the sub $100 dollar range are quiet. But there are a few.

    Resale value: I sold a pair of Schoeps for more than double what I paid for them. Budget mics are hard to sell, and you sell them at a loss. I usually just give them away to recording students. Oktavas are right in the sweet spot: they are cheap, lightweight, moddable, sound good, you can put all kinds of capsules from other mics on them, and they hold their value. Do they sound like an MK41? No.

    Overall value: if you add up the maybe fifty mics mics I bought in the $50-$100 range, none of which I ever use unless I run out of mics (like in a big orchestra with double redundant systems) I could have bought a matched pair of MK41s instead. Ooops. My bad.

  • I read a lot and the Oktavas have a lot of handling noise. There's a mic shootout that covers that here: http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html

    But also a lot of threads in DVR and TREW etc that talk about it. Besides the Schoeps, I personally like the samples of Neumann hypers I've heard.

    I own none of those and haven't done any sound, just researched a lot. Just got a AKG SE300B w/ CK93 coming in the mail...

  • @DrDave

    Thanks for your answer, it's interesting to see someone who tested so much mikes :-)

    This mic has bogus specs because the frequency response is not +/- 3dB. If you look at the frequency plot you can see the roll-off. It is a typical trick that budget mics use to try to compete with other designs.

    Hmm. I think that you need more than one response at one angle to judge any mike. It can be very complicated, especially inside, and especially if you talk about bass (in fact, anything below 500-800Hz).

    Getting back to the ISK, I prefer the omni capsule to both the cardioid and the "super", but they are all relatively noisy compare to other budget designs, as well as to the Oktavas.

    Can you tell me about this "other budget designs" ?

    Also, the Oktavas (especially since the upgraded their own preamps) have a much more natural treble and better bass extension, especially on sibilance for dialog.

    How we can measure "more natural treble" and "better bass extension" ? Or you just mean more flat response? Why do you think it is so important (considering that such mikes won't be used by most people for concert recordings :-) )?

  • I actually buy the mics, test them, them either sell them or keep them. I currently own more than 60 microphones, in addition to the microphones I make for my own use and custom modifications. I don't judge a mic based on specs, but I do draw two simple distinctions--mics that are beyond what I consider an acceptable noise threshold, and mics with bogus specs. This mic has bogus specs because the frequency response is not +/- 3dB. If you look at the frequency plot you can see the roll-off. It is a typical trick that budget mics use to try to compete with other designs. However, they DO publish a curve--not for each mic, of course, which is also bogus, but for sort of an "ideal" mic.

    My "noise level" max for professional work is 18dB, A weighted. That means that a mic with that figure is like taking a recording of something, or a tea kettle perhaps, and placing it in the sound field and turning it on. Or you could just ask someone in the room to make a soft hissing sound. The 18dB is just a source of hissing noise--perfect for Hallowe'en. That means also that in soft dialog with say 35dB input, that the signal to noise ratio is worse than 17dB. 17 dB of signal is pretty bad, but it is marginally acceptable.

    However, and this is key, once you upload that audio, the audio will probably go through a compressor. So if there are gaps in the dialog, the noise level will suddenly jump way up. In fact, the misuse of compression is what causes most of the noise problems in dialog, and you can't control the noise gate when you upload it,

    So do I stick to my rule? No, if I test the mic and the noise "sounds" OK, I will use it like on these Earthworks QTC omnis. These are noisy on paper, but if used carefully you don't hear the noise as much. It is still there, but it isn't annoying:

    If you take a Sennheiser MKH 40, it will basically have ten times less noise and sound better. All of the hiss will disappear. That's because the design produces noise of a type that is less audible, as well as producing a lot more output. I know this because of course I test all the mics that are in my studio.

    Getting back to the ISK, I prefer the omni capsule to both the cardioid and the "super", but they are all relatively noisy compare to other budget designs, as well as to the Oktavas. Also, the Oktavas (especially since the upgraded their own preamps) have a much more natural treble and better bass extension, especially on sibilance for dialog.

    Don't take my word for it--they are so cheap you can test them for yourself! And you can always sell them on eBay.

  • @drdave I have no opinion on the Fostex as I've never used it so would defer to the opinion of others, such as yourself, who have.

  • @DrDave

    Something tells me that you make judgments on specs. :-)

  • Maybe they changed the design. I looked at one that was really bright on top--then rolled off above 17k, with a rolloff in the bass, but maybe they changed the design. 20dB self noise is way too high for a mic, but maybe that also has changed. Anyway, the price is right... specs and polar here http://procanaudio.ca/CM-20C.pdf

  • @DrDave

    I am not sure that we are talking about same mike

    http://www.swamp.net.au/isk-super-cardioid-condenser-microphone.html

    I and @Rambo have this mike and it is not noisy at all (In fact @Rambo said that it is most noiseless that he had ever), and it has normal bass response.

  • You could buy a two box rig, but you might also consider the one box rig, since it has less boxes. The ISK mic is pretty noisy with a bright top end and no bass extension in case you ever need that. If you only record dialog, the lack of bass is like a built in roll off, but it is usually better to get something that has some bass and also a roll off switch.

  • @pedro_es

    If you are looking for really inexpensive, I think the best value vs performance (for indoor dialogue) would be Zoom H1 plus used juiced link preamp (from ebay) plus ISK CM20. That would be about $300 total. I did a test of that combination here: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/142768#Comment_142768

    I also have the superlux, so let me know if you'd like a test of that.