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RAW makes obsolete all your skill
  • 287 Replies sorted by
  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    @Ian_T

    at the end of the day, explosive news regarding RAW video (bmcpocket, 4k raw for $4k, all the Canon ML stuff) takes the internet by storm and it makes this topic somewhat even more true/realistic. It's not that RAW makes ones skills, it's just the flexibility it offers. A director may not know anything about lightning, but if he knows he has RAW to his advantage he may not care so much about lightning and possibly an additional expense. Anybody that knows anything about cameras/filmmaking would surely agree that the more flexibility a camera has the better, correct? A $3k Canon MK3's stock just went up because a group of people gave an already great camera RAW video flexibility, on top of MULTIPLE other options that have already been available.

    I really didn't want to post on this topic but I do respect that you see where I'm coming from and see the bigger picture. Most people just skipped around the topic and assumed that I get on my knees and pray to RAW every night.

  • Ian_TIan_T

    We are our own worst critics. I think that's true in everything we do.

  • jpbturbojpbturbo

    I think at the opposite end of the spectrum from what Ira Glass said are those type of people who absolutely can not view their work objectively because it is something they have created themselves.

    "Imagine that, you know, you built a table," said Daniel Mochon, a Tulane University marketing professor, who has studied the phenomenon. "Maybe it came out a little bit crooked. Probably your wife or your neighbor would see it for what it is, you know? A shoddy piece of workmanship. But to you that table might seem really great, because you're the one who created it. It's the fruit of your labor. And that is really the idea behind the Ikea Effect."

    The Ikea Effect on NPR

  • Ian_TIan_T

    @Vitaliy You’re absolutely correct. It reminds me of the saying “you can’t be all things to all people.”

    EDIT: Thanks for that @jpbturbo What he says might be common knowledge to a lot of us but if more people heard that first part of what he said then they would not give up so easily on their dreams. It is normal to really "suck" when you first start out in the creativity process. Funny how he called his own earlier work "moronic"..lol

  • jpbturbojpbturbo

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Ian_T

    Btw, cutting out middleman is not the best idea. As labor division is driving force of the progress.

    As I repeated multiple time probability that someone could make all aspects on good level is tiny.

  • leonbeasleonbeas

    Clearly its obvious and we both agree that if this new hammer lets you tell the story you want with half the effort at half the time, welcome new hammer :-)

    That's not even into question, but sometimes to achieve specific results or to resolve problems (it's what we all do most) you need to get to that old used hammer sometimes, and the good thing is you know how to do it.

    That's why some people are a technicians and others are creatives, some are both and some other don't know what they are. But competition is good, as you say more people with the tools more ideas more creativity, more inspiration you grow and get more active.

    At the end as i mentioned in my last post, "And its just simple, the work speaks for itself you like a picture,that's a good one for you, that's it. Even if the photographer used a camera or not, who cares. Did you received a message, great. Try to transmit the message by yourself."

    Cheers @Ian_T

  • Ian_TIan_T

    @leonbeas Hah..yeah…my point is that I was there once myself…and sort of still am. Before I moved on to a different profession the recording studio that I was working with went the way of the do-do bird (in Connecticut). Other larger studios in NY were closing down. Not too long before that started happening a lot of producers kept coming into the studios with MPC’s and laptops etc. Next thing you know a lot of session musicians were…basically “not needed” anymore. The ability for anyone to create music at home became more and more of a reality. That opened my eyes and I followed suit.

    Honestly though to this day I still hate to mix anything I’ve done musically down to a “lowly” MP3..lol. But…I do love the idea that these fast climbs in technology has allowed more and more people to do things they could not of otherwise done or afford to do in the not so distant past. I noticed that this bred a lot more talented people coming out of the woodworks today but this ALSO includes a lot more crap coming out there as well. You get the good with the bad.

    It doesn’t matter whether it’s Photography/RAW or Engineering/DAW, applications like PhotoShop and Nuendo basically cut the middle man out for a lot of people and created a whole new way of getting your ideas out there. Whether or not people ewho use these applications can be considered "professionals" is another (or expanded) topic in of itself. If you are making money as being a wedding photgrapher just because you bought some camera and software editing suite then wouldn't that be your profession? Whether you are good at it or not shouldn't change the definition of what's a professional right? So the use RAW like I mentioned above is making it easier for people to label themselves as such. Maybe Webster's needs to expand upon that definition (I don't know ...I'm just throwing this out there).

  • leonbeasleonbeas

    @Ian_T thanks for the resume.

    I believe there are several layers of reality, where there are levels of experience and learning. Just like baby's and old man's, as in photography or any other art, only when you hit the wall and realized that even if you dedicate 4 lifetimes in doing the same you would never get to that point where you'd be completely satisfied with the results. Then and only then you start to become mature in what you do.

    So does raw or what ever you want and whats next to be invented does people better on what they do, well if your reality is yes, you are not mature enough, keep taking pictures and the illusion and dreams of the child will eventually become less and less important. All is down to what you have to say to others, paid or non paid job. Technology or not, Photography like painting and writing or any mean of expression is just an excuse to don't explode internally and share those things you cant by regular means. And make a living it that road.

    And its just simple, the work speaks for itself you like a picture,that's a good one for you, that's it. Even if the photographer used a camera or not, who cares. Did you received a message, great. Try to transmit that message by yourself.

    Its a real waste of time trying to find sense where there isn't none, and talking about how good a carpenter or pseudo carpenter would or not be if he has a wood or metal hammer. Common wake up and see the furniture.

    Is like staring at the wise mans finger while is pointing to the universe.

    ;-)

  • SageSage

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    ++

  • Ian_TIan_T

    LOL...I just stumbled accross this thread for the first time and read like the first 6 pages before calling it quits. What is funny is how people take @GravitateMediaGroup's comments serioulsy. The internet can be a funny place sometimes where we just keep getting lost in translation. If there was a "facetious" button or "sarcastic' button for him to use then I think folks would have not been so offended early on. But nevertheless it made some comical reading...especially since he wouldn't back down...lol. At the end of the day I get his point. He was never disagreeing with what anyone here was saying. Nowadays many folks do think of themselves as "photographers" and have convinced uninformed people to shell out their money to pay them for their...um...(un)professional work. It's just like any other craft....like filmaking and the plethera of so-called "filmakers" or "DPs" in various forums. The tools are so cheap nowadays that anyone can place that title next to their name (and they do). Still...there are those who have been doing their crafts professionally for decades who end up quitting or writing blogs full of rants because the (amateur) competition is getting in their way. It happens. Just adapt and move on. Me personally...before I was a rocket scientist (I hate that terminology) I once made a living as an audio engineer (part time). In the 90's you could find studios to work in NYC or anywhere in the upper east coast. But it was also during that time major studios started closing down some well know spots and you started to see a great deal of home studios emerge. All of a sudden everyone became an audio engineer. Suger Honey Iced Tea happens.

  • lolololo

    i dont think it turns into a masterpiece all by itself, but if you are in a budget and cant afford to light up properly it can help to find a style of your own without loosing too much quality

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @jpbturbo

    But with video raw it is all different. As soon as you are getting raw camera all you films will be masterpiece.

  • jpbturbojpbturbo

    This thread is complete nonsense.

    Having a camera that shoots raw does no more to make you a good photographer than having a pallet full of Old Holland oil paints and a handful of handmade chungking hog bristle brushes does to make you a good painter.

  • maxrmaxr

  • MirrorkisserMirrorkisser

    Lol and now imagine he gets contracted, as i said, not even ebola could spread that fast. And now imagine there are at least one million other people like that. Each infected just 2-3 others. Good night and good luck!

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    I take that back, technology has already boosted the confidence. At the end of his latest test it says "for business, contact ____"

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    @mirrorkisser

    Yep, and a year or 2 ago, he probably had never made a video. Within a year his confidence could be to the point where he thinks it is alright to charge for his work. If he can pull it off, congrats, but anybody that knows better will stay away.

    The difference in this situation is he has a bad habit of pumping his opinion out to people thats looking for good information.

  • MirrorkisserMirrorkisser

    Maybe there has been 90% consensus between us all the time :)

    I think people should be encouraged to improve, not bashed. But you just described yourself into which direction things go. There are some really good people on this site here and i enjoy watching their stuff or value their contribution in testing settings and then there are those other people whose posts and videos i scroll over like junk mail. So its valuation between their freedom and my time and nerves.

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    Freedom of shit photos I guess comes with the territory on the Internet.

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    Also, go check the moon topic, raja has just received 10 "Looks Good!"

    I'm guessing this is what you are referring to. Only it's worse coming from this community of "know all" and not one suggestion was made to him about improving, just letting him go on.

  • MirrorkisserMirrorkisser

    @gravitatemediagroup: he might also be part of harekrishna and listen to sergeant peppers lonely heartclub band all day and have a faible for hallucinogenic stuff...

    I never denied that technical progress is there and that its bad in general. You can take the internet, its a wonderful invention, free access to knowledge for everyone (well except if you live in north korea), but what do people do with it? They mostly surf porn and post pictures of cats on facebook.

    With camera technology its the same. Those people who could only commit smaller aesthetic crimes in pre-internet and digital times, they can now release shockwaves. Its like one day everybody will have a doomsday-device (rip peter sellers). I think its wonderful if people use that technology and do their stuff at home or go to a forum ask for advice or say, hey thats my new picture. But if they start to see themselves as standard or set standards or hand out so much wrong advice, but oh well...maybe we have to accept that. I just hope there wont come a day when i preferred to be blind instead of having to see all this crap.

    how do you feel when nowadays 50% of the stuff (more and more tv shows look like that now) looks that super soft canon look, every shot super duper shallow depth of field just for the sake of it and not part of any visual language, camera movement in EVERY bloody shot, without being motivated by anything but the "DOPs" vanity. So little skill of composition.

    And i hate to keep lying to family members and friends who think they know it all about photoshop and show me their terrible totally oversaturated badly graded with no sense for composition, but still trying to be arty instead of at least capturing something personl in their footage they shot on their last holidays. For crying out loud, i am a social being, i just cant tell them all to take a fuckin course before they show me anything again. (Plus i am not even in the position to do so as i dont consider myself a pro, but at least i dont pretend to be)And my nightmare continues when i log into facebook or many other places.

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    @mirrorkisser Raja is more than likely color blind lol

    You won't find any legendary type photo/video people very often.

    But you will find armatures and pros having access to the same tools, using them in the same ways. Good or bad. You are ranting to the wrong people. Just glad to know you now understand that IN FACT technology IS making it's presence known. MY POINT from the start.

  • MirrorkisserMirrorkisser

    @gravitatemediagroup: no m8, no scars at all! I am a relatively young chap (just recently passed the 30), so modern technology is not yet an issue for me, just those weard things on wire they talk into and say they can talk with it to people hundreds of miles away, that is vodoo bullshit in my opinion.

    And believe me, i support anyone who tries himself in any form of art. Its wonderful, helps you to get in touch with your self, even if you just draw little houses with a pencil. I am all with C.G. Jung on that one!

    The internet sort of replaced the art gallery for many. I hate to single him out, but look at your friend rajamalik, he advices the community a lot of stuff, still he manages to grade anything into orange aliens. He is one of the disciples in your legion. Imagine someone who is new to this coming to this forum and taking all his stuff for real, trying to copy him. This can spread faster than fuckin Ebola. And now imagine that guy on RAW!! If he is butching gh2 footage in a way that makes the texas chainsaw massacre look like a bingo evening at the home for retired nuns in Yorkshire, what will he do to raw and spread with it?

    Maybe the problem is not that those people contribute. But that many take themselves for pros, give silly advice and set the foundation for a new style. If those people were a little more humble, that might already help a lot. In fact those people mostly neither know the craftsmanship of filmmaking or photography nore to they contribute in the field of arts.

    Call me a nostalgic and try to turn this into proof of your accusation, but today we have probably more "filmmakers" and "photographers" than ever. Still i dont see any new Tarkovsky, Kurosawa, Bergman, Fellini, Bunuel, Bresson, rarely anybody who has an artistic soul. Yes there are a few very good ones outthere (Lars von Trier, Bela Tarr, Dardenne brothers, Tarantino, Christopher Nolan just to mention a few) but mostly its just a legion of self-declared pros.

    You cant stop progress and it would be utterly stupid, everything changes. But you can guide changes into the right direction and support things that are worth being supported.

    My guinea-pig starting a "professional"-raw photographer career is not among those things.

    @luxis, right you are m8!

  • luxisluxis

    @mirrorkisser +1 ! New "RAW" skills are needed to find the good (and sincere) stuff in the pile of crap ; )

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