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Red Epic and Scarlet pricing reduction
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  • Be honest, please: Raw workflow requires some more steps and skills. Saying that it's not rocket science and has got its advantages is true but doesn't change things.

  • @stip

    I had more trouble working with h.264 files than with 4K RedRaw files, technically and creatively.

    No, you hadn't more trouble working with h.264, and if you had it's your fault.

    What you may have had more trouble with, is "fine tuning" h.264 or getting exactly what you want from it (at least close to the level you're accustomed with RedRaw).

  • coming back to the topic "price reduction" also reduction from Sony (EU / Germany)

    NEX-FS700 -20% (to 6.967,-)

    NEX-EA50 -10% (to 3.150,-)

    PMW-100 -25% (to 2.995,-)

    PMW-F3 -35% (to 11.950,-)

    HXR-NX70 -23% (to 2.360,-)

    NEX-FS100 -25% (to 4.290,-)

    PMW EX1R -24% (to 4.864,-)

    PMW EX3 -25% (to 5.863,-)

    I am very curious for the F5/F55 price

  • Dang, didn't know the EX1 and EX3 were still on the shelves.

  • For what I have heard it is not the editing in itself that is tedious now but the render time if you don't have a red rocket. It is more like days than hours.

  • @peaceonearth Looking at the F3 price reduction, I think they are making place in there pricing structure. So we could see a F5 at about the same price as the F3.

  • No, you hadn't more trouble working with h.264, and if you had it's your fault. What you may have had more trouble with, is "fine tuning" h.264 or getting exactly what you want from it (at least close to the level you're accustomed with RedRaw).

    lol, sure, whatever you say mate.

  • @peaceonearth

    Are these new prices including VAT for Europe?

  • Commercially 4K is driven by the hi-res gaming, computing and Smart TV technology with 'hi-speed web'- not so much filmmaking/broadcast. TV manufacturers want more display pixel space for multiscreen/webcast crossovers like Apple want you to buy more pixels in their latest iPad/macbooks etc. Pany are set to launch decent 4K consumer priced display line with SMART in 2013 - where else can they go?! Sammy, Sony, etc.. the same. Over here in the UK, Sky is looking at the launch of one or two 4K movie channels within the next 2 years and the Beeb is testing - ready for Freesat? Whatever happens, worldwide broadcasters are establishing new compression standards for 4K to cope with bandwidth probs. AVCUltraHD derivative?

    3D TV will improve vastly with 1080p in each eye, screens greater than 80 inches will look better.

    As for diminishing returns there is none with digital until we at least get to the equivalent of film. RED and the likes are simply moving up to 8K and above niches.

    My personal-view is Viva! Ultra HD. We'll all be editing in a proxy version of AVC ULTRA HD in a year or two anyway.

  • @Jean71 I got an email from a supplier (videodata) and I was a little shocked in the first moment. I bought the FS700 end of September after it was finally available. As I checked the price for the FS700EK now again it seems that it (at least for FS700, cant compare other ones) it's a small price drop as the price are net without VAT. I bought mine for 7190,- now it's 6967,- it's 223€ or 3%. I was mislead cause I thought the prices in the email list were prices inc. VAT, Sorry for this fuss.

  • @peaceonhearth

    I was double checking in euro, and i couldn't find such reduction of price in italy, that's why i asked. Don't worry, i make confusion every time, on professional things, with the VAT :-) Thanks for the infos.

  • @driftwood I have heard the same thing so many years ago about HD. Nowadays you cannot buy a TV which is not at least 720p, but how many channel are still being aired in SD. In first world countries it must be like 50%, then think about the rest of the world. Now we not even talking about full HD 1080p here, but 720p or 1080i. It has been how many years since we have HD and even Blue-ray did not come off as expected and the DVD still reign supreme. This is from SD to HD which is quite a big quality difference. I have not looked at 4k vs 2k side by side, but as I have never seen a pixel from a 2k output on a 40 foot screen even looking at it, I don't think a lot of people are going to see that big difference.

    In fact it could go the other way round. We could find our-self in the same situation than the music industry. While audiophiles were thinking about the next thing after CD with better birate etc, something called MP3 came along with its compress and bad quality to wipe the floor and become the standard even if it is a big step down in quality from CD. What might happen is that a lot of the consumer will go towards portable devices like tablets etc.

  • @danyyyel +1 It is damn industry and their short-thinking market strategy who ruins the progress at the end. Why producing 2k and 4k technology in the times when majority of consumers still didn't check the IQ difference between DVD and HD?

    The sad true for many of us here is that the most of consumers don't care about HQ, neither for videos nor for tone. Also our footages with amazing VK's hacks and driftwood's settings are mostly being watched on iPhone and Android screens, true?

    In music industry is the same: 2k and 4k equivalents didn't work at all. Since the digital sound recording exists, the industry has been fighting to get a standard medium accepted by all consumers. Stupid only, that each company forced its own format as none wanted to share their win with the others (pay for using their codecs/formats).

    As result, the consumers were insecured and overfloated by the new products, which were not supported after only few years (or even months). There were so many sound devices and mediums: Digital Cassette, Digital audio tape (DAT), Laser Disc (sound+video), Digital sattelite radio (DSR) etc. I could bet only few of younger PV members here heard of more than one of those. I owned all of them and payed lot of money for those devices in that time. Today it is electrical waste.

    So, considering this topic: the first quality equivalents of 2k and 4k in the audiophile world are already dead. First it was DVD-Audio (up to 6 tracks in PCM 48kHz/24bit uncompressed) who was out, and now it also happens to the SACD (DSD technology). Today, BD-Audio offers also possibility for up to 8 uncompressed high-bitrate audio tracks. Yet, the opportunity to listen music in amazing quality and in surround instead of stereo were so far not interesting because most of consumers just prefered poor MP3, listening them on the speakers of their tablets or notebooks.

    I do not belive in the future of 2k and 4k. Even if many consumers would start buying such devices, the industry would destroy that progress with the instant release of 8k and 16k.... LOL

  • This thread about RED price reductions starts to become a conversation about the future of video which is a more interesting topic :)

    I like the the comparison with mp3. There are diminishing returns on technology that only pursues progress in one dimension and when attention is given to other areas, which have stagnated, there is innovation and growth.

    I am interested in 8K displays but I am not that interested in watching 8K movies. I think I would more likely use 8K to watch several 2K channels at once and do other things meanwhile. I guess this type of usage represents a disruption of existing models.

  • Well, getting back on topic (albeit less interesting) I went ahead and bought the Red One MX on Friday, as the delays for the BMCC pushed me over the edge. Vitaliy won't approve of the used camera, but I'll run it through it's paces during my 90 day warranty period. It's a bigger investment than the BMCC for sure, but after a respected old buddy from NYU told me it was "like finding 10,000.00 on the street", I moved on it. He also did the OEM build of the Red Nikon mounts, so hopefully I'll get some of his used stuff at a discount. Besides, I'd rather have my money in something solid now then in a bank.

    I'm a frugal shopper, so I'll post the final damage to get this camera functional, not optimal. I'm not a gear geek, I just get what I need to do what I need. While I have been teaching film at universities, I haven't been working gigs, so I've been shooting with 5dmk2 and then with the GH2. But now that I'm in China, I'm going back to my U.S. work habit and think the rig is an investment. We'll see.

    But this camera will not be able to go where I've taken the GH2, so it stays with me. "From my cold dead hands" as Heston once said.