Red Epic and Scarlet pricing reduction

danyyyel

@vicx , yes that is the only advantage that he had over the Alexa, which has clearly beaten him in the high-end camera market. What the Alexa tells us, is that there is much more than resolution and spec sheet for the quality of a camera. While he was boasting about resolution resolution etc. Arri concentrated on DR and color science and ergonomic and it had payed dividend and he is sour about that and boasting on the only advantage that he had.

The 4k thing is truly overdone, most if not all the Hollywood movies that were done on red where re-sized to 2k because of cost for CGI etc. Many indy are going to invest and film/master in 4k, while some lighting budget and gear would have made there production much better.

rockroadpix

@danyyyel - EXACTLY! That is why one company excels over the other in look. ARRI has been doing it very well for a very long time. They get it. RED (although I like the business model) is run by someone that is too wrapped up in the numbers, IMO.

With these price drops, when will an 18" cable be less than f***ing $200!!! That is what seems like the whole ponzi scheme of the company. It's ridiculous. If I had a dollar for every AC that was trying to find a misplaced cable, I'd own a full Alexa package.

NickBen

Just posted today on Reduser.net:

Jannard

As soon as Dragon and our "new technology" has been released, I won't be just taking a little time off. I will have done my job.

Jim

I think I called this prediction a couple days ago- New RED upcoming tech needs to be funded by blowout prices on existing Red inventory and production lines and will aid production of Dragon ASIC which would be part of the newer camera systems (likely 8K+) ...

even IF it doesn't come through, looks like he's "retiring" early, transerring the reigns to Jarred

at least, that's what he's saying on a late Saturday night...

robmneilson

Most importantly, what is going to happen to the Epic rental prices after this drop? In the city I live in it you can usually get an Epic for $1,000-$1,200 bucks/day. I would love if it made rentals a bit more affordable now.

nomad

You could get a RED in Berlin for € 99 for a while now…

robmneilson

Good deal, in NYC I could get some great deals as well. Unfortunately I'm down in Houston now and the rental market here is so much smaller.

stip

You could get a RED in Berlin for € 99 for a while now…

you mean dvkameraverleih.de? Good luck trying to rent it, it's rented out all the time, need to book it weeks, better month ahead.

NickBen

Looks like RED has a major announcement on November 30th for home 4K distribution coming soon with an industry partner.

Those 4K players look pretty sweet, but a little large (I know, home theater fanatics like to show off their gear)... now if we only had something to watch them on under $5K... have to wait for CES 2013 in January for those...

http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1352045981.jpg

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?88303-4K-Delivery-get-ready

Jarred Land Today, 01:24 AM

I know we have been harping about 4K distribution forever... but it is about to get very real.

Now is a good time to figure out ( if you haven't already ) how to prepare, conform and finish everything important that you have shot in 4K. There are going to be alot of people very happy that they chose a camera that was ready for this whole new world of distribution.

The Consumer Electronics Association has finally laid down the UHD 4K rules for Displays... and they don't take kindly to anything below 3840 x 2160.. In fact.. they don't allow it.

4K Displays are here. and their prices are dropping every month. Soon they will be in reach of the masses.

And then there is REDRAY... the crown jewel of 4K content delivery.

Next month we start shipping 4k REDRAY players to alot of new eyeballs.. consumers and professionals alike.. and they are going to want the same thing... 4K content.

For REDRAY we have partnered with one of the most innovative content distribution companies that both content owners and viewers have ever seen...and we built it right into REDray.

Expect the official REDRAY and 4k Content Distribution network announcement along with pre-orders to happen in a couple weeks.. but I thought it was important to give you all a heads up so you can prepare.

Our Production Lines are churning.. manufacturing is ramping up.

We are ready.... are you?

robmneilson

4k at home can't come soon enough, but I think it's going to take a long while for the average consumer to buy into it.

rigs

Most Broadcasters are not even up to 1080p. Distribution is 1080i at best here in Canada. 4k will not be accepted by the masses anytime soon, unless the manufacturers come in at low price levels and it doesn't come in at a higher premium to subscribe. One only has to think of how many people ponied up to put 3d TV in their homes.

bimdas

4k has it's place in production but it's getting on ridiculous to be getting 4k in the home. Unless I'm sitting a couple of feet away from my screen, there's very little difference between 720p and 1080p from my couch on my modest 42inch tv. We'd need a wall size screen to make use of 4k in the home. Even now with 1080p, I can see the heavy makeup used in every movie and every wrinkle. When will enough resolution be enough? When we start to see every pore on their skin? The resolution race is getting ridiculous and the sharpness in resolution is starting to become distracting in movies.

sam_stickland

@rigs Here in the UK most HD broadcasts are compressed too much to boot!

brianluce

the sharpness in resolution is starting to become distracting in movies.

I agree.

jpbturbo

I've been tested to have somewhere between 20/10 and 20/8 vision.

I'm looking forward to an increased amount of detail in recorded images.

danyyyel

@jpbturbo, so you want to see every pore of your preferred actress.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

so you want to see every pore of your preferred actress.

Pores are not a problem as in 4K production you can use plugins that can track face and apply filters to hide flaws.

Most consumer cameras already has similar modes to find and slightly blur faces.

jpbturbo

@danyyyel Generally if I can see it in person then I would like to see it on screen.

It does make it harder for VFX work to look as realistic though.

peaceonearth

a lot of films shot in 4k are downscaled to 2k due to cgi budget

"Although he shot Prometheus in 5K at 5:1 compression (occasionally switching to 3:1 compression for scenes with very fine detail, like water or foliage), he notes that the original photography had to be converted to 2K in post to match the resolution of the visual-effects work. “On a movie with this many visual effects, going to 4K would have quadrupled the visual-effects budget,” notes Wolski." (ASC-Interview)

NickBen

@bimdas @brianluce @danyyyel It has taken me a while to adjust to the absence of film grain, but I now look at and admire the texture of faces as a sort of "modern film grain" equivalent, the ugly beautiful element that makes everyone unique and not porcelain...

I understand that this is completely a director's choice now, so if they choose lenses and filters that accentuates fine detail of skin texture and it makes it past the final edit in post, it was completely their personal choice...

It may not be everyones liking, but neither is extreme overuse use of SDOF, which I've been most distraced by more lately...

hay

@bimdas @brianluce

i recently viewed "the master", which used 80% plus 65mm kodak stock, at two theatres. the first had a 70mm optical print of the film by fotokem for optical projection with an estimated resolution of 10-11k. the second theatre had output for 4k dcp. i was shocked totally shocked how bad the digital 4k version looked in comparison, particularly in terms of luminance. i dont care what red or any of these other new digital cam manufactures claim. the current state of digital output in a theatre context is nowhere near what is possible optically. so, while the digital film revolution continues, which means good things for my ability to get access to inexpensive filmmaking tools, it is very sad that this superior art form is going away in favor of efficiency and ROI.

http://www.studiodaily.com/2012/09/films-not-dead-yet-part-2-fotokems-workflow-for-the-master-in-70mm-35mm-and-4k/

http://www.theasc.com/magazine/april05/conundrum2/page7.html

hay

i've also watched many of these: http://www.red.com/shot-on-red

quality wise, the 4k dcp results look about same as what was visibly evident in the "the master" 4k output.

whatever the case, i think content matters more now than ever. cool to see bela tarr's new film school aimed exactly at this conundrum...students learning with film to get a better understanding of what differentiates historic filmmaking. what we have now isnt film, it should be called something else - like video - thats not a bad thing, as mr. tarr suggests, but it is a new language that should be heralded for its own benefits and not continually subjected to the kinds of claims coming from red, sony and arri's marketing depts.

Sage

I remember loving the Christie 2k image back in the day, but I think there is something funky with the Sony 4ks..

There is no doubt though: when digital gets it right, it gets it very right.

TheNewDeal

It's still the story that sells...

As long as the technology doesn't get in the way of the story, who cares what the story is shot on?

Oedipax

@TheNewDeal, there's more to filmmaking than just story

TheNewDeal

There are many things, but nothing so make or break as story.

Technology makes few movies interesting. The key effort should be to make sure any technology limitations don't distract from the story being told. 4k is just one of those available elements. I've yet to see any movie where 4K or any other technology made or broke either it's creative or financial success.

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