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Black Magic: Official $1,995 raw cinema camera topic, series 2
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  • Do you think we will see a 2.5k, 13 stop, raw camera for $ 3000 anytime soon from any manufacturer. I don't see Sony, Canon or red coming close for the next 5 years at least. On the contrary, I see blackmagic coming with a S35 raw camera in the next 2 years.

    Yep. Either Blackmagic... or from GoPro. I think well definitely see a revolutionary cinema cam from these guys sooner than later...

    I really don't care about s35 over this current sensor size from BM though. It has 13 stops of DR, it's shoots RAW... it's a full-fledged cinema cam. No excuses, but the user. Sure, I'd take s35 if it was an option... but it's a VERY mute point considering the alternative insanely priced options.

  • IMO this is something that happens when you make assumptions based on how you do things and put those same priorities on others who actually don't think or operate the way you do. They put too much faith in their Sensor supplier and that was a big mistake. It happens to all kinds of companies that have to outsource part of their production. If you make everything in your product then you can control everything, but if you have to outsource anything that can be your weak link.

    Still BM should've made sure to actually have tested batches of sensors in hand before setting a date for when they could deliver. I never understand why companies don't cover their butts by having some product in hand 1st. You would think that after RED's fiasco, that other companies would be sure not to fall into the same trap.

  • @bwhitz You would laugh, but it's already over a year and half ago when I saw the JVC 4K 60p handheld Camcorder prototype with live 4K output they actually released for a measley $4995.

    If only JVC could have only slapped a Sony, Canon or Panasonic label on their 4K camcorder everyone would be laughing at the competition for not bettering them by now...

    Oh well, everyone will probably be showing small-chip 4K camcorders at CES 2013, so just a couple more months to wait for a few alternatives...

  • @bwhitz Why there is no 48p in this camera.

  • @johnbrawley Since you are in close contact with BMC you would probably know whether they are considering using a different sensor all together, for example the Truesense KAC-12040? This sensor would allow for a true m43 BMC cam. If they could ad an active mount with contacts so one could use Panasonic and Olympus lenses, I think quite a few people would be very happy and ready to wait a little bit longer.

  • The images from the BMCC cameras which are out there are pretty amazing. Even if the supply chain problems delay camera shipments till mid next year, the BMCC will remain a unique offering to image makers.

    To put it into perspective; it looks like the GH2 will remain a unique offering in terms of its image even with the imminent arrival of the GH3. If you value a unique look or unique capabilities at a certain price point it is only hard to wait.

  • The same supplier who gave BM the sensor to create pretty images for marketing is now liable for slowing down its building process? Could sensors suddenly become bad in the middle of a shipment? According to Mr Petty, the supplier had no experience building colour sensors cos its work was revolved around b&w imaging. So pray tell, where did BM get those sensors in working order to build those prototypes? As a manufacturer, your promises are nothing if you dun deliver

  • @kodakmoment, you cannot just choose a sensor on spec list. One thing that I don't find mentioned at least visibly is the dynamic range. Blackmagic have been very picky about one thing and have always put it at the center of their communication and it is DR. They went the Arri way and not the RED way. For me it is the best choice because I think DR is more important than resolution when you have at least reach a good 2k resolution. The DR and colour science remind me a lot of Nikon and some would say Alexa.

  • @johnbrawley , I hope they do implement some form of slow motion even if it is only in prores and in small burst mode of 15/30 second. It would really open the BMC to a larger use than pure cinema. We might like it or not, but in today's commercial world slow-mo is all in vogue. Nothing crazy is needed, just little burst then wait for the buffer to clear. I think people will understand the limitation. The same they did with the request for M43. Even if it was only in passive mode, people did understand and were very supportive because they felt the company was listening.

  • @danyyyel

    They did m4/3 passive because it was easy and people wanted it.

    Higher FPS is a much bigger deal. Maybe they'll find a way, but right now the engineering team is working on other core features !


  • @kazuo

    Maybe you should re-read Grant's posts. It's made very clear.


  • @kodakmoment

    That's a pretty new sensor. (and a CCD i'm guessing if it's from Kodak/Truesense?)

    The most expensive part of developing a camera in terms of time and engineering resources, is optimising for the chosen sensor to get the most out of it.

    The current investment to get to where they have now is literally millions of dollars.

    They're not going to throw that away and start again with a new sensor. If they do, it would be an entirely new camera and there would be months of work.


  • what it looks to me from this post is that BMD is learning. They were not a camera making company and they are just learning how to build and deal with this kind of problems. It's normal. I am happy they are at least trying to explain to us the problems they are facing, and being honest with us (so it seems). I have criticized this camera also, but if the shop around the corner had them for 2600€ I would run there and buy one right now.

    @johnbrawley what other core features? Can you tell us or not really?

  • Seems like they are shipping now - lots of reports of them turning up and my supplier is saying their orders will be fulfilled before the end of December.

    I guess going back to the original glass manufacturer has helped.

  • The CMOSIS chip is natively only 10 stop of DR. They have 15 stop in HDR mode, that is double exposure which is not necessarily usable.

  • well just ordered one BMCC... f* it! :) I'm on the line! Waiting as everybody else! :)

  • I like your attitude @MovieArmada!

  • Looks like the BMCC has some nasty audio issues currently - DC offset, camera resets to Line level mode when the Mic input overloads and requires a reset of the camera to change and nasty digital pre noise -

    In depth blurb below:

  • @MovieArmada things like audio VU's, better exposure tools, getting 100% lens compatibility as obvious ones...

    plus some others.... ;-)


  • And another update.


    Here is another update on the camera shipments.

    Some good news. If you have read my other posts about the causes of the camera delays then you know we have been dealing with a problem with our sensor supplier related to contamination of the glass that's bonded on the front of the sensor. It's not been clean and so we had to stop production of cameras.

    There have been two issues here we have been dealing with, the first that the sensor supplier has not been able to see the contamination because their tests were not good enough, and secondly that they need to find a way of bonding the glass on the sensor without contamination.

    The good news is that we got a small shipment of sensors that the sensor supplier had tested with their new test setup and they were all ok when we built cameras with them. This is good because they will now be able to see sensors that are contaminated and not ship us anything that's unable to be used to build a camera.

    Also, the sensor supplier has done a small run of sensors at the new company that's bonding the glass and they got almost a 100% pass rate, which is also great. This means they finally have a solution to bonding on the glass that looks like it will work.

    The plan at the moment is to do a small production run this week and we hope to get those sensors next week where we can build cameras using them and see how it all goes.

    But things are looking quite good. This run of cameras next week will test the sensor supplier's ability to build sensors without contamination and to also be able to test them correctly so we only get good sensors. If that's all ok then we look like we will be able to move back into production.

    I will update everyone next week when we know. I also hope to have more info on how fast they can ramp up with this new supplier and the new test.

    I hope this update helps.


    Grant Blackmagic Design

  • any news? looks slow here. Anyone in europe getting delivered?

  • @MovieArmada

    My understanding is that core decision was to move most first cameras to bloggers, reviewers and influental professionals.

    But it seems like production improve slowly.

  • Many regular shooters even hobbiests have them already.

  • Many regular shooters even hobbiests have them already.


    You are big proponent of BM.

    Anyone can tell how many cameras had been actually delivered? 10? 20?