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Are the days of consumer camcorders coming to an end?
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  • Ummm... I gotta buy a smartphone anyways. In fact I already got iPhone5 :)

    I wanna get used to taking photo/video by using a phone.

  • My next mini domestic project is by using iPhone5. Apply the same post-processing workflow as Gh2. See how far I can push. I'm hoping that it's good enough for me.

    You can buy cheapest small compact with 1080 and compare result.

  • My next mini domestic project is by using iPhone5. Apply the same post-processing workflow as Gh2. See how far I can push. I'm hoping that it's good enough for me. Roughly it gives 41mm focal length in 35mm format which is almost same as 20mm 1.7 pancake on m43 body. Nice focal length. Yes 24p! Yes image stabilization!

    Consumer camcorder market... is it still alive?

  • You guys just love Matroska so much.

    Yep, it is standard torrents format :-)
    Also standard for TVs is special vertical anamorthic 3D RIPs :-)

  • You guys just love Matroska so much.

  • yep. US and UK 3D tv uptake obviously different to Russia!

    Because in Russia, guys always ask if TV plays MKV files and also if it can do it via network (from home server or computer). And, as it is easy to guess, all popular sets can do both :-)

  • @NickBen

    It is good idea not to project US into all other world.

    Bad 3D adaptation can be caused by money hungry guys and very strict copyright preventing access to big amount of 3D content for cheap.

    In US it is made worse by economic situation, Blu Ray prices, and discounters pushing cheap TV sets.

  • yep. US and UK 3D tv uptake obviously different to Russia!

  • Before I bought a GH2 I was looking through camcorder offerings, and the main reason why I did not end up buying one was that the form factor of all camcorders with acceptable image quality was just way too bulky for me. I need an additional housing for under water shooting, and the housings for the typical "fold-out-display camcorder" are usually too big for cabin luggage.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev "In fact, in reverse. Natural choice is 4K 3D OLED screen using passive technology. LG showed such screens and they are amazing. Only thing that stops this is OLED production issues."

    I'd love to buy a 84" 4K OLED 3D screen right now, but it still seems maybe 3 years off at anywhere near "affordable" prices ($5000 or less). The closest thing to that we have today is the Sony Personal 3D Viewer at 720p OLED/eye for $800, but it's not practical for long-term video viewing at all.


    Worldwide, I don't doubt there's a sizeable audience of gamers and sports fans and die-hard movie fans that insist on 3D, but mass audience hasn't adopted 3D use into their daily lives though the options are there.

    As for 3D, might check this article from last week that was published by AP

    http://apnews.myway.com//article/20120928/DA1IQIGG1.html

    "Sluggish demand for 3-D on TV has caused programmers to hit pause on rolling out new shows and channels. In June, DirecTV turned its 24-hour channel, n3D, into a part-time network that only shows special event programming like the Olympics, in part to avoid the heavy use of reruns caused by a lack of new material. Last year, AT&T dropped ESPN 3D from its lineup, saying the $10 per month cost to subscribers wasn't justified given low demand."

    I wish it were different, but this trend has cooled off my plans for investing in developing 3D content, and instead focused on generating higher resolution content instead for the future ...

  • 4k displays provide for true 2k 3D (2k each eye) versus today's half resolution 3D.

    Btw, it is common misconception arising from wrong understanding how our eyes work.

    While the home market for 3D TVs has not taken off as hoped

    Btw, it is interesting statement, as here most TVs bough has TV option (bot from LG and Samsung as major players). 3D premium dropped to almost zero this year.

  • Depending on the model of camcorder used, you may have better control of audio levels, motorized zoom in multiple speeds, far less CMOS jello than is present on large sensor cameras, much better video image stabilization, better auto focus while shooting video, and a form factor that may be more readily usable for continuous shooting over time. And I am thinking of low end camcorders!

    I've shot events with both dSLRs and camcorders - and the camcorder features and form factor almost always win. Of course dSLRs will get better too.

    Are camcorders dead? No, but the market is shrinking - the consumer camcorder appealed to parents of young children. Many of those parents are shooting video using their point and shoot - or worse, smart phone - and do not seem to mind the bad results (especially jello).

    4k - most people (not us photo fans!) do not notice the difference between 720p and 1080p on a typical home TV. Most people over age 45 have eyesight limitations making the resolution less noticeable on a home TV. 4k displays provide for true 2k 3D (2k each eye) versus today's half resolution 3D.

    Consumer 4k? Hard to see that becoming a consumer item for a while yet - editing is a pain.

    3D? I have shot mostly 3D video and stills during the past 10 months using dual Lumix GH-2s and dual Canon HF M301 consumer camcorders. While the home market for 3D TVs has not taken off as hoped, the online distribution of 3D (Youtube) is growing nicely. 3D is not yet large enough for traditional fat pipes (cable/satellite) to support much 3D content. But niche content does well online. 3D is a niche but it is growing.

    Ed 3d.coldstreams.com (personal site on 3d)

  • From someone that uses both DSLR and conventional camcorders for clients, i can safely say that right now and for the foreseeable future camcorders are an absolute essential for the ENG videographer.

    I'm watching the VG30 from Sony like a hawk and if they fix some of the issues of the VG20, then this camera could bridge the gap for what I need.

    Ergonomic handling = check Professional Looking = check (I still get people laughing at my GH2.... it still hurts) Shallow DOF = check Reliable Auto Focus = check 50p footage = check Low Light capabilities = check Stabilisation = check

  • No new 3D camcorder and lenses have been announced for a while.

    I think it is false, both Sony presented TD20 this year, as well as Panasonic renewed 3D option in their camcorders line (it has better 3D lens option now and recording is now 1080p frame packed instead of SBS).

    3D computer displays are infrequently released now

    All exact in reverse, as many new 3D displayes had been announced and available now (LG, Samsung, etc).
    As I am fan of big screens, also big amount of cheap and very good LG 3D TVs are available also.

    Many people watch movies in 3D here at the theaters because there are no 2D screenings

    I asked personally many people, never had such answer.

    In fact, I am watching home 3D films and docs now more than 2D :-)

    upcoming 4K vs OLED won't make the choice any easier on consumers either, further segmenting the market.

    In fact, in reverse. Natural choice is 4K 3D OLED screen using passive technology. LG showed such screens and they are amazing. Only thing that stops this is OLED production issues.

    Idea of many professionals on how cool it'll be to have same shooting approach (instead of difficult adoption of 3D approach), just in 4K, could result in disaster. :-)

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev Yes, "Soon" and "commercial" are relative terms. But, In my neck of the woods, I don't see clients asking for 3D content yet though it is available, and 3D camcorder sales have been a bust commercially. No new 3D camcorder and lenses have been announced for a while. 3D computer displays are infrequently released now. TV's have the tech, but the lack of standardization hasn't helped adaptation- upcoming 4K vs OLED won't make the choice any easier on consumers either, further segmenting the market. Many people watch movies in 3D here at the theaters because there are no 2D screenings- for example, I had to watch the last Spiderman in 3D even though I really just wanted to see it in 2D. If I do buy new movies in collector sets that include the 3D Blu-ray for like $5 more, but that is pretty infrequent and normally because they include extra content and a play anywhere license...

  • @mpgxsvcd I originally picked up a GH2 from an Australian filmmaker that had both the GH2 and then the HF-G10 and found that the latter (with a 35mm adapter) was much faster to use for what he wanted to do.

  • I sent @mpgxsvcd this link

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-HDC-SD90K-HD-Camcorder-with-26x-Optical-40x-Intelligent-Zoom-/221106955746

    I think it is very good option is you want camcorder. It is sharp, 1080p60 machine, with all features you need.

  • as 3D has been a commercial failure...

    LOL. It is not commercial failure :-)

    Idea of 4K consumer camcorders coming very soon is slightly strange.

  • I think the camcorder era is about to be reborn, if only to try to get people to buy more expensive 4K TV sets, as 3D has been a commercial failure...

    Picture quality (sharpness and brilliant colors), image stabilization and Easy handling with 1 hand and are likely the 3 key things to most "consumers" who want video outside of a cell phone.

    The era of the small chip 4K camcorder with 60p for $1000-2000 is coming pretty soon (we already have the JVC prosumer 4K camcorder at $4999), and this type of camcorder will be ideal for the average person or elderly person that wants a simply high quality image with DEEP DOF for good still extraction. I'd give that to my parents/grandparents and tell them to point and shoot, and zoom at will. NO WAY they'd get the same results so easily with a DSLR- too much to fiddle with...

    The sharpness of video and stills extracted from 4K h.265 video will surpass that of every current DSLR video mode on the market, and a cell phone would have a tough time keeping up at that resolution and framerate.

    So, I think a rebirth is coming to the camcorder segment in the next 2 years at the latest, if not showcasing this CES 2013, definitely by CES 2014... and after all- it's a way better method of displaying 4K TV's anyway...

    I'm sure we'll see some "4K FUTURE-PROOF" your video memories with 4K push, or something like that...

  • Thing that I want to see is called sensors with uneven density.
    So, big camera sensor will have more density in the central area (double density in 1/4 center area, and next doubling again after 1/2).
    All that you need is just special ENG lenses that you could snap on m43. :-)

    Big advantages of camcorders is exactly small sensor size. So stabilizers are working better. AF hunting is hardly noticeable.

  • @svart I'll take that bet.

  • @svart I can't say we are in a good enough age. I think the opposite actually. Not long ago, audio was king in Doc's and video was just there to look at while you listen. That has gone a full 180 degrees and Docs are becoming real productions.

    Camcorders do things like auto focus that DSLR's aren't even close to. You mentioned the HF G10. I have one that I bought along with it's Prosumer Big Brother the XA10. It's the same camera with the XA's XLR inputs. It has beautiful autofocus and I use it on my Jib/Crane. I've tried DSLR's on it and it ain't pretty.

    Camcorder stills suck and for the same money, a DSLR will give much better video results assuming you have time to set the shot up. Despite the fact that people use them, a DSLR is not an ENG camera and doesn't work well for it.

    A cellphone is just a cellphone. Some news people like Shaky Hand Productions are using them, but they only get mediocre video. It's a device of opportunity, not choice.

    We're seeing more attempts at breeding camcorder/DSLR hybrids and that may be the future...but, technology does not travel in a straight line, so who knows.

    I think camcorders and DSLR's will have their places for a while yet.

  • bet you 1$ that in 5 years camcorders are gone. :)

  • @svart

    Dream of cell phones taking over is so common :-) Sadly, won't happen.

  • In the age of cell phones that can take "good enough" video of people protesting something stupid or the kids playing in the yard or whatever, PLUS being in your pocket wherever you go, I believe that YES camcorders are going away.