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What is the best type of monitor to watch videos
  • I have a very good IPS LCD monitor and a plasma tv hooked to my computer. I can compare videos easily with both screens and plasma screen gives better video quality in generally. What are your experiences?

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  • A very good motion test. Can you see panning photos sharply with your monitor.

    http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=eiffel.jpg&pps=960&pursuit=0&height=0

    In my computer monitor image blurs badly.

    In my modern TV I can see all the details at every speed.

  • http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_reference_monitor

    The station tech I know is still on holidays. When he gets back I'll ask him what he thinks of all this.

  • @thorn

    Thanks for your points. I am maybe in wrong forum with my ideas but where is the right discussion for me. Many people here are obviously concentrating to film making. I am interested in shooting and watching as realistic as possible. This seems not to be a goal for many. Here also seems to be more emotional look at things than technical.

    I use video same ways as photos, I shoot and watch. In photographic forums they discuss every little aspects of photography like shutter shocks but nobody usually talks about content creating. Why it must always be related with film making in video communities. For me a video camera is not an artistic tool, it is for documenting memories. In this site cameras are mostly consumer models and I thought that consumer style of shooting is ok too to discuss. I dont like 24P because it is difficult to watch if not shooted very carefully and professionally with lots of extra gear.

    Very few talks about viewing photos and videos. Some watch 36Mpixel photos with Pads and laptops. I try to concentrate the whole chain of viewing experience. For me it is pointless to have the best camera in the world if I cant see properly photos and videos it creates. That is the reason why I wait 4K too. With a good display pocket camera photos looks betters than DSRL photos with a poor display.

    I own 3 Panasonic cameras and this is maybe the best place to get information of optimal settings and use. If I shoot sports or rapid moving events I cant get much help here to obtain best overal viewing experience. In my mind too many are stucked with 24P and old rules and if suggesting anything else it seems to be bad. I try to be more careful in the future with my opinions and findings.

  • Vesku,

    Reading this thread, and other similar threads on P-view, and other similar threads on dpreview - I can't determine a) what question you are REALLY asking and b) what ultimate answer to image quality you're truly looking for.

    You keep asking questions about plasma televisions, and LCD monitors, and camera hacks, and so on and so on. You seem to not do much editing nor color correction, and use video application-specific settings (such as level clamp removals) to attain the result you wish to have - so that you can shoot hours of footage, and playback direct-to-screen... and yet the forums you visit are mostly populated by people who are not normally that sort of user. Their answers to your questions are generally not what you're wanting, because it's usually this: "technique X is better because of post operation Z", and you respond "well, I don't do anything in post".

    At times it seems that many of your questions are better suited to a forum for television enthusiasts, than content creators...

    To put in another way: I play drums. In drummer forums, we spent lots of time discussing equipment, technique, inspiration. We don't spend much time at all discussing LP vs Cassette vs CD, which one sounds best for recreating a particular Neil Peart beat. For those things, there are audiophile forums on other websites.

    I'm left to wonder, as I said in the beginning - what ultimate knowledge are you seeking, exactly? Are you wondering which camera to purchase, which setting to use, or which television to purchase - or something else entirely? Or are you just sort of bored, and posting questions for the sake of starting some random discussion?

    I'm not trying to be rude. If it's just boredom, that's fine (i guess), but I think a lot of respondants (here and elsewhere) are starting to tire of the same vague question ad infinitum. If you're after some more specific knowledge... perhaps it's time to target that question, and then move on to some other video-related interest.

  • @Vesku

    I think we already have separate topic that you made. You also did not understand that kind of test I talked about.

  • @Vitaliy

    Open any serious monitors/TV tests and check response times measured for all colors/shades.

    Here are typical reviews of modern LCD TVs with motion improvement features.

    http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ue40f6400-201305042929.htm

    When it came to motion processing... ...the F6400 still managed to return 1080 lines from the horizontally scrolling chart in the FPD Benchmark test disc (up from 300 if [Motion Plus] was disabled), providing a welcome boost to the clarity of moving objects in fast-action sports content such as football.

    http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/philips-46pfl9707-201304042732.htm

    The 46in 9707 manages to cleanly draw up to about 350 lines of motion natively. This raises to a full 1080 with [Perfect Natural Motion] enabled on any setting (even the lowest).

    http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ue55f8000-201303212755.htm?page=Performance

    As with previous Samsung LED LCDs, the Samsung UE55F8000 can show all 1080 lines in a scrolling resolution test chart, provided that the [Motion Plus] system is engaged. With this feature off, you’ll see the usual LCD motion performance, which delivers just 300 lines worth of clear details. That’s enough for 24fps movies to appear without much in the way of discernable blur, but fast, high motion content like televised sports will still appear with some

    This motion test is made visually by looking horizontal panning bars with eyes.

    So LCD visual motion resolution:

    -1080 lines with motion improvement feature

    -300 lines without motion improvement feature

    Almost every Plasma TVs show 1080 lines too in theirs tests.

    CONCLUSION ABOUT USING LCD COMPUTER MONITOR:

    It is hard to see any motion related IQ things like benefits of sharp motion with 60P, artefacts, etc. For example it is hard to see superiority of GH3 MOV artefact free motion rendering because it is impossible to even see artefacts with AVCHD with 300lines of resolution. It is also not optimal to watch hand held videos because every little movement of camera drops resolution to 300lines. It is not so big issue with 24P because motion is very soft anyway but people cant figure why it is better to shoot 60P because they dont see better sharpness in motion, only smoother motion. Videos are so best to watch with a modern TV set.

  • Everyone has to learn at some point. Vesku is trying, and researching. He was asking questions and prodding for more information and other opinions. Condescending rudeness is not and effective teaching method. This is his topic, unnecessary to force a new "off" topic about the same thing.

  • So you prefer incomplete sources and semi educated discussions? And how are these going to help you exactly? Cognitive systems and interactive media (along with their many sub-subjects) is a fascinating field, but you need proper approach, not guesstimating..Edit: Researching involves reading, searching and then evaluating and choosing your sources, otherwise it's just googling..

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev Good lord, man, why are you being so harsh? @Vesku started a very valid thread and is having an interesting discussion, and you are being extremely rude, condescending, and argumentative. I guess you aren't one to lead by example. This is not the first, second, or third time I've seen this behavior from you, and its very disappointing and makes me want to disregard everything you say and leave the forum. Slow down. Think on it.

  • OK I make a new offtopic topic. Sorry for trouble.

  • @Vesku

    I told you my suggestion. This topic is already ruined without any respect to topic author. So, either make specific topic or just stop.

  • I dont think it is offtopic.

    Most of the people are video oriented here. How can issue about monitor video motion quality be offtopic. Why doing lots of IQ improvement in video shooting and then not caring how to watch videos? Obviously not many are interested about this matter. But on the other hand not many here are not shooting 60P and want to enjoy sharp and fluid motion in video.

  • You can make separate topic in Offtopic category.

    As for me - it is simple. Wasting time to this "problem" (if you check, guy who spreads it lives on it) is useless.

  • So you say this phenomenom is not real. I am confused because to me it is very clear. One more example.

    http://www.testufo.com/#test=eyetracking&pattern=lines1

    When watching ufo in the center, vertical lines are sharp. When following moving ufo same vertical sharp lines becomes soft due to eye/brain, not response time. Plasma screen has no this kind of softening because of image "strobing".

  • First link is student project.

    Second link is by the same BlurBusters guy, just copy and paste.

    We really need to stop this offtopic, as it can transform to something like huge threads about jitter on audio forums with guys spending thousands fighting with with ghosts :-)

  • How can you explain video softening in LCD screen when individual frames are tack sharp but seeing motion is soft?

    May be it is god related issue? :-)

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    I was surprised when I figured this issue. It is a little confusing but it is documented well and reasonably and my empiric tests proofs it.

    I suggest that you think this again:

    How can you explain video softening in LCD screen when individual frames are tack sharp but seeing motion is soft?

  • My LCD has 5ms response time and it shows sharp individual frames in motion. But because pixels remain the same every 1/60th second eye/brain gets confused because it predicts motion but the frame is still the same all that 1/60s. A friend took photo burst (400fps) with Nikon V1 of LCD screen motion test. Result is that this cheap LCD showed sharp frames during test but seeing the motion was still soft.

    Now go back and read that I wrote. Think on it carefully.

    I guess the picture gets blurry due to slowness and "memory" phenomenon of eye/brain."

    I guess that in this case it must be same blurry on plasma and CRT due to way the image is actually displayed on them. Otherwise - read books, not Wikipedia or forums.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    From that Wikipedia page:

    "Motion blur has been a more severe problem for LCD displays, due to their sample-and-hold nature.[3] Even in situations when pixel response time is very short, motion blur remains a problem because their pixels remain lit, unlike CRT or PLASMA phosphors that merely flash briefly. Reducing the time an LCD pixel is lit, can be accomplished via turning off the backlight for part of a refresh.[4] This reduces motion blur due to eye tracking by decreasing the time the backlight is on. In addition, strobed backlights can also be combined together with motion interpolation to reduce eye-tracking based motion blur."

    My LCD has 5ms response time and it shows sharp individual frames in motion. But because pixels remain the same every 1/60th second eye/brain gets confused because it predicts motion but the frame is still the same all that 1/60s. A friend took photo burst (400fps) with Nikon V1 of LCD screen motion test. Result is that this cheap LCD showed sharp frames during test but seeing the motion was still soft.

    He writes:

    " I recorded this "Response time test - ghosting" test with Nikon V1 with 400 fps video mode. It shows that my computer monitor running at 60Hz is showing the moving pattern keeping sharp. Still it gets blurry in my eyes if I try to follow it. I checked it in video editor and it seems like it takes 7,5 ms for a line to change from black to white and 20 ms from white to black. This is affecting only the first and last bar in the pattern since other bars in the middle keeps stable time as seen in the video.

    I guess the picture gets blurry due to slowness and "memory" phenomenon of eye/brain."

    Original motion test:

    http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/response_time.php#response_time_gif

  • How can you explain video softening in normal LCD screen? Individual frames are tack sharp but seeing motion is soft.

    Open any serious monitors/TV tests and check response times measured for all colors/shades.

    After this go and buy book about mind and specifically how image processing works from retina to nerve to preprocessing, etc. To be short - motion sharpness is made up thing and depend mostly on the model made by our mind and prediction accuracy (in real world).

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    My ideas are obviously not getting many fans in this forum :)

    How can you explain video softening in normal LCD screen? Individual frames are tack sharp but seeing motion is soft.

    What do you think why biggest TV makers use all rapid scanning backlight technology in LCD TVs? Is it cheaper to make or is it just a marketing trick?

    What does your eyes say?

  • I think that "sample and hold display technology that causes retinal blurring" may be new to you too.

    It is not new. Just remove all marketing bullshit and use your logic and knowledge.

    Learn to separate bullshit from requirements to show you accurate picture of captured video. None of your referenced information have direct relation to it.

    Very rapid frame flickering in plasma or very rapid backlight scanning in new LCD TVs is solution for blurred motion. Response time has little meaning in this. This issue is eye/brain related and rapid frame strobing fools brain to get illusion of sharp motion.

    Read something about plasma technology.

    Also most of the description of eye saccades and image processing by brain your referenced source is fully inaccurate.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    Thanks for interest for this matter.

    Lets forget CRTs. This issue is with computer LCDs. I think that "sample and hold display technology that causes retinal blurring" may be new to you too.

    Very rapid frame flickering in plasma or very rapid backlight scanning in new LCD TVs is solution for blurred motion. Response time has little meaning in this. This issue is eye/brain related and rapid frame strobing fools brain to get illusion of sharp motion.

  • Their logic and illustrations are from http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg463407.aspx

    If you spend little time you will see completely inaccurate and flawed logic.

    Statement that CRT is ideal device comes from stupid logic that at each time CRT beams display actual pixel (that is updated at some very high frame rate). It is not so. Your card has frame buffer and almost always it works exactly like LCD sending whole frame.

    Again. For eye tracking blurring superiority of CRT you need special organization of whole path (read, complete software and hardware redesign). For 3D games it also require changing whole rendering logic (as it renders whole frame to frame buffer).

    Such papers appeared especially during early LCD panels time, because their pixel change rates were very low.

    Also paper states 1ms or even 0ms times for LCD, it is complete bullshit if you check any serious test.