GH3 mov -poor mans raw

Vesku

Here are sample frames from of GH3 video. GH3 mov has more color information than almost all other h.264 4:2:0 cameras because it records levels 0-255, not standard 16-235. So I call it "poor mans raw". I have edited colors and sharpness in photoshop. It holds very well when digging shadows and optimizing dynamic range. Shooted with Natural: cont-5, sat 0, sh-5, nr-5

What do you think. Are these close to "blackmagic level"?

ala_img

For me GH3 is great working cam. Two batteries and 3 16gb SD cards always enough for any long shooting day! Quality is enough for documentary and TV production. I have expirience of using GH3 and FS700 for shooting documentary, and i can say that i found GH3s 50pmov better than fs700 avchd. And it makes realy good footage for post processing, not as good as raw, but very usefull anyway. Now i am getting BMCC, but it is mostly for my own art projects, and i think that GH3 will still main working camera for me.

Vesku

I made a sample frame of EOSHD vimeo clip of comparing RAW and not RAW cameras. I digged shadows and applied heavy sharpening and some color boosting to see clearer the differences of cameras. This is not same than boosting original RAW files but you can see something about quality of final renderings of these cameras. This test was originally about dynamic range. I think that GH3 has most "balanced" colors without issues. Of course one can grade whatever from RAW but that seems to be difficult to get "right" colors.

peaceonearth

That video hurts my eyes. Damn it's hard to watch. Good info but too hard to watch.

not only my eyes. I am sea-sick now.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

I think that for MANY projects the GH3 will be more than enough for the avg viewer of low budget projects to appreciate.

For most small projects that bring money (interviews, small firms adverts) GH3 is better than any raw camera. Just from economical reasons.

Aria

Can't blame the technology for lazy writing. I'm just glad that the quality is improving so much over the last 5 years. Just think of how far we've come since the 5Dmk2 came out? I think that for MANY projects the GH3 will be more than enough for the avg viewer of low budget projects to appreciate. There can always be better since it's a subjective thing. If care is taken I can anyone should be able to get some great results from a GH3. Coming from the Audio side of things, I find it funny how we spend so much time and money to make great recordings only to have most listen to MP3's on low quality headphones.

I'd love to see more info on how to scratch even more quality out of the GH3 for those that want it and even for mixing with BMC footage. I think it would be worthwhile.

kazuo

@Jericho

I can't agree more. Technology has displaced the art of storytelling. These days, it seems a film exists only because some new camera or 3D technique begs to be given a test run.

bwhitz

I'm just shooting a music video now with the BMC 2.5k and a GH3 for 60fps... and while the GH3 obviously isn't a match for the Blackmagic, it really does hold it's own for the slow-motion material. The color-science is very similar on both cameras. Very "Nikon-like". BMCC and GH3 render great blue-teal hues. I love the Blue and Teal tones in Nikon's color science (Canon is very ugly in this area and more Red-biased) which is probably why the GH3 and Blackmagic are so appealing to me. Not to mention the resolution is close-enough on the GH3 for 1080p-delivered projects. Blackmagic's still definitely better at high-detail wide-shots, but they match fairly well when the frames are in motion.

The GH3 does feel more like 4:2:2-lite than other 4:2:0 cams. I've been throwing some pretty tough-curve adjustments at the GH3 and it's really not breaking yet. It does feel like it's got allot of color-information in it's codec. I'll post some still when this video gets close to being finished.

Vesku

@Faudel

I have seen this before and its youtube compressed. Still it shows how much information is in GH3 mov.

50Mbs long GOP has still better picture and less noise than 72 Mbs intra. And please dont drink alcohol or too much coffee when you shoot demonstrations. Thanks

vicharris

That video hurts my eyes. Damn it's hard to watch. Good info but too hard to watch.

Faudel

@vesku

Vesku

Please I dont want to be left alone :-( I appreciate your comments. Your experienced eyes will help me to render better results. These frames are from video and I like sharp results. Lens is indeed 14-42 cheap kit. Very observative from you sangye. My plasmatv shows very sharp videos pleasantly because it has some kind of dithering or so called plasma noise wich softens gradations and noise and artefacts. Thanks for your interest.

Jericho

If filmmakers spent more time on writing a good script then all this obsession with grading, 4:2, 4:2:0, 422. 8 bit, RAW, h264 we would see better movies.

Sph1nxster

In any case, the price of RAW does not stop at the camera. Storage, rigs, time spent colour grading all start to add up for serious paid work.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@kazuo

Leave author alone :-) Some like one and another like different things. Raw is raw, of course. But BMPCC has huge number of shortcomings besides big number of advantages.

kazuo

How could a GH3 be a poor man's Raw when a BMPCC is below a $1000????? Stop trying to make 4:2:0, 422. 8 bit and 10 bit are as different as Audi and a freaking Skoda.

Sangye

These stills aren't that impressive for a GH3, let alone something I'd compare to Blackmagic or RAW.

Maybe this look appeals to you, but to me it looks oversharpened and overprocessed in general. Resolution looks poor - I'm guessing because a cheap lens was used? It has a certain kit lens look to it. I don't see aliasing or noise, nor would I expect to in daylit scenes. Color and clarity look downright unnatural, particularly in the first still.

Sorry, that's just my opinion. Again, maybe this look appeals to you. Personally I think you took average/decent quality stills and made them worse.

edit - Not really sure how it's "poor man's RAW", either... the GH3 sells for the same as the BMPCC. The GH3 excels as an AVCHD / h.264 camera, it's not a substitute for RAW and never will be.

jpbturbo

The first shot looks as though it has way too much sharpening applied in post. It's also a .jpg so it's been recompressed.

Vesku

If GH4 or 5 or whatever name it will be is going to be reasonably size camera wich takes great photos and 4k video it is to me next step. If it will be large camcorder type monster then I wont buy it.

This is going off topic as Vitaliy always says to us so what you people think about my video frames in absolute manner. Regarding color, clarity, aliasing, resolution,noise etc. Is this max quality of GH3.

rNeil

@vitaliy_kiselev

I've seen (I think) much of the speculative comments here on the GH5 ... do you have any recent guesses/feelings/hints as to what the GH5 will be more than what's been hinted, which ... in all ... has been all over the place.

Neil

Vitaliy_Kiselev

I hope hack will come before GH4k because it will be too late for me then.

As far as I know GH5 won't be GH3 replacement :-)

Vesku

Hack would be nice and I am very much waiting for it. I think video quality benefits little but PAL/NTSC switch is first in my needlist. But with fast sensor and 4-core processor I wonder what could be possible with hack. I hope hack will come before GH4k because it will be too late for me then.

SuperSet

I'm wondering if and when the hack will improve things.

Vesku

Thanks for interest of my point. I am not saying that these are equal quality to raw and I dont want to use any raw camera - thats too much work and inconvinience. Besides I like to shoot 50P or 60P and there is no raw option for that in reasonably price tag. What I am thinking is how close or far is graded raw frame of video in normal light. Can one notice a big difference? I would very much like to see some examples.

matt_gh2

@Vesku You can always rent a Pocket for a few days and do some tests - that way you'll see and feel difference yourself as it applies directly to the type of stuff you like to shoot. Here's a place that rents and ships to you.

http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/video/cameras/blackmagic/blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera

vicharris

Yep, not even close. Two completely different cameras.

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