Personal View site logo
Make sure to join PV on Telegram or Facebook! Perfect to keep up with community on your smartphone.
BlackMagic: Official $2,995 raw cinema camera topic
  • 1156 Replies sorted by
  • onedayoneday

    can someone give me a clue how to achieve wide show with this camera?

    to cut out the EF mount :)

  • robbie75vrrobbie75vr

    Rolling shutter (the guy is panning the camera, check out the screen)

    rolling shutter.jpg
    1033 x 761 - 199K
  • xntrggrxntrggr

    @mo7ies I think this is amazing video quality for the price, and this is footage from a pre-production camera. It seems to shoot in a very nice log mode, comes with amazing software for CC, the dynamic range is ridiculous and a few stops better than the GH2, records to SSDs in DNxHD and ProRes, and has professional balanced audio inputs. I don't think the GH2 will be able to shoot those Bondi beach shots without areas getting blown out or underexposed, and if it did, it would take lots of time to get the colours to look so naturalistic

  • xntrggrxntrggr

    @oneday The Tokina 11-16 EF mount is a great choice for rectilinear wide angles, similarly so on the GH2 and I don't think you'll get anything better for the price/performance ratio. This will fit most of anyone's wide angle needs. If you still need something wider, then use a FS100 or something.

    ps: it'll be awesome to create a m4/3 mount inside that EF mount, if the dimensions fit. best of both worlds!

  • perderperder

    If this is indeed the fairchild sCMOS, then limiting the camera to 30fps rolling shutter (for now) sort of makes sense, as the dynamic range of the sensor drops beyond that point. the sCMOS is capable of 100 fps (full rez) with a rolling shutter, or half that with a global shutter. EDIT: and for 2560x1024, it is capable of 220fps, or half that with a global shutter..

  • AlexAlex

    there are reports on twitter that the BMCineCam has rolling shutter issues (like first generation DSLR). The initial handheld footage looked pretty clean to me (shaky but no jello). Did they fixed it in post?

    Rolling shutter is a big deal breaker for me!

  • Alfi666Alfi666

    I believe there is too much hiss about this camera at this point... I appreciate its pros, but lets be realistic. Putting an EF mount to camera with such a small sensor (which was probably taken of the shelf) is stupid move. Even if you try playing smart and you count with the fact that most people already have some EF lenses. You cant get effectively wider EF lenses than 14mm and that's not really wide for such a small sensor.

    Another point is ISO/ASA rating which says that the base is 800 and you can go up to 1600. Now I understand that this is definitely not a low-light camera, but I'm afraid that even with a huge dynamic range, you cant save small sensitivity given by small sensor.

    Another point... for what good is a RAW camera that cannot get the shallow DOF filmic look? (remember, that was what made DSLR's popular).

    I'm afraid that RAW recording had too much priority in this case. I understand that their intention was to keep the price low... well at least thats what is delivered.

  • vladnikvladnik

    i think that is a reason why they use rolling shutter mode (more DR) but the reason why it cant go more than 30 fps is hardware limit... and that fairchild sCMOS is cutting edge of sensor technology ... DR look like ARRI ALEXA maybe even better... about rolling shutter ... what i see at NAB they put canon 70-200 zoom on their camera ...that is extreme zoom for that sensor and of course u will see jello... but i dont see it much in demo shot and it uses 35 mm leica (about 80 mm on FF) ..and about low light BMD sensor has huge 6.5 micron pixels same size as 1dx ...and dont forget when u shoot h264 codec become noise reduction because it eliminates fine details ....raw files are always nosier than jpeg (shoot 5d2 in 1600 raw and see) ...and BMD has more than two stops advantage for same DOF (2.8f for BMD is about 6f on 5dm2)...just go and read Shane Hurlbut blog he constantly uses 5.6f... thats is a reason why many people need 3200iso on FF ...and anybody who say that he can shoot with 5d2 at f2 must have zen master powers...and i dont understand what is all this fuss with wide angle lens ...even Terry Gilliam king of wide shots use 14mm on s35 (Kubrick used 18 mm on academy ratio as his widest lens)...do we really need 14mm wide lens on FF... Movies are mostly shoot at 3.5-4 f....that is 2.8f BMD camera ... u can get shallow DOF with this camera... but if u like that Philip Bloom DOF porn then this is not camera for u ...

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    About my feelings. It is hard to formulate them exactly. But I'll try.

    My idea is that problem with some users can be in whole expirience.
    Many won't have external screen or viewfinder, due HD-SDI.
    Many will complain about choosen lens mount. Preview most probably will be not very accurate and will require some adaptation. Some software problems are almost guaranteed at early stages. Plus you have difference arising from RAW workflow.

    Personally, I think that future of video cameras for us, mere mortals, lies in parallel AVCHD (with intra option) + RAW recording.

  • xntrggrxntrggr

    @Alfi666 I think there's plenty of wide angle options out there, you don't have to use EF lenses, use the EF-S ones instead. Tokina 11-16 for a damn high quality wide, Tamron 10-24 for a cheaper good wide. I think the question of which mount to use was something BMD mulled over for quite a long time, and having an EF mount isn't quite a big a mistake as people are making it out to be.

    I think the problem will be finding good lenses in the normal range. Finding good and cheap glass around the 20-30mm range will be tough.

  • duartixduartix

    @robbie75vr it looks a lot more like lens distortion than RS. Notice how the "Optical fiber" board is a lot more skewed in the left side than in the right and those lines were read at the same time.

    Same applies to the screen!

  • xntrggrxntrggr

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev This cam has a Thunderbolt port which can be adapted to a HDMI port. Not sure if the firmware will support it but I think people might not have to replace their HDMI-only external screens or EVFs with HD-SDI versions just yet.

    Preview probably won't be accurate cos of the whole LUT thing, which demands a more complicated workflow and is relatively new to indie filmmakers, but then again colours are just what Blackmagic are great at.

  • vladnikvladnik

    except big companies (sony ,canon ,panasonic) all others buy their sensors... ARRI use sensor design by Cypress (but they sold their business to ON Semiconductor) RED uses sensor made by Israel fab so all that of the shelf talk doesnt make sense...

  • vladnikvladnik

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev i think that is good thing not problem ...push people to learn craft ... not just point and shoot ...in good old days of celluloid people wait 24h before they see what they done ...

  • Mr_MooreMr_Moore

    Vitaly’s and Nick’s efforts have demonstrated that the GH2 (i.e. hardware from 2010) is capable of reliably encoding and recording H.264 at bit rates of up to ~150 mbit/s. Apple ProRes 422 tops at 147 mbit/s (and 220 mbit/s for HQ), and it’s VBR. It offers lossy but nearly indistinguishable from the original all-intra compression and requires a fraction of the processing power of the H.264 encoder.

    It’s 2012 now. Why hang on to AVCHD when one could adopt ProRes with its 4:2:2 10-bit capability and much more simplified workflow? It records a single flat file and supports extensive metadata (as opposed to the cumbersome, unwieldy folder structure of AVCHD). It should be a piece of cake to implement it in virtually any consumer camera with enough processing power to spare.

    AVCHD is the silliest choice for an acquisition format. Neither the H.264 codec nor the AVCHD format were developed for acquisition to begin with. Why Panasonic and Sony decided to shoehorn them into their acquisition products is beyond me.

  • vladnikvladnik

    because it can be played in blu ray players....

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    AVCHD is the silliest choice for an acquisition format.

    I see no problems with H.264. And I prefer to see fast parallel preview with WB/contrast/etc adjusted on set.
    I am interested in how good and fast is the process. And how easy is to get end result.
    Current RAW is still more oriented on normal full team approach with professionals doing processing and grading.

  • brianlucebrianluce

    I hate to admit it, but as much as I say I love RAW, I'm sure if I had the BMD I'd end up shooting in DNx or PRoRes for the reason V mentions. RAW would just take too long and use too much disk.

  • vladnikvladnik

    @brianluce of course there is no need far RAW all the time ... prores and DNxhd are very good alternative ....

  • mo7iesmo7ies

    @Mr_Moore : and then why not use Cineform? I find it to be an extremely robust codec, and I use it for years as cornerstone of my own workflow, obviously very successfully. Wouldn't want to be forced to switch to ProRes. Why no new products come out with Cineform codec video? - which by the way can be done in RAW, too! (see SI-2K cameras with 4:4:4 10-bit RAW native recording. Low bandwidth allows using even 5400rpm HDDs to save 2K RAW video!)

  • JDNJDN

    DR look like ARRI ALEXA maybe even better.

    Sorry, this made me laugh. Having shot with an Alexa I can tell you DR looks nowhere near it. The fall off and gradients are not nearly as smooth or filmic.

    I guess though people are seeing what they want to see.

    And lack of xlr still makes this an indie cam. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But as a working professional creating content for doc series, the most incredible thing out of nab for me is the fs-700. Now that's the camera I can't wait to get my hands on.

  • vladnikvladnik

    arri alexa sensor was made by people (Cypress) not Greek Gods...there are at least two years difference between this two sensor (eons in sensor technology) ..what i seen from RAW screen shots has more DR than ALEXA RAW ...no XLR is not deal breaker .. professional way is to use independent audio recoding...

  • Brian202020Brian202020

    I can almost guarantee my work will be 75%+ ProRes or DNxHD and the higher end and green screen stuff will be the RAW 25%. It will be very nice to have the 2.5K 12 bit RAW when needed.

  • johnbrawleyjohnbrawley

    @rrrr they went for EF mount because it's got a huge installed base of cheap electronic lenses. They intend AF and Iris. They will do PL mount and m4/3 eventually.

  • soundgh2soundgh2

    @Brian202020 thunderbolt can be converted to literally any other output type - hard rives firewire USB monitor inputs etc etc etc e.g.

    http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/150779432500?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla

    cheap as chips

This topic is closed.
← All Discussions