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Future GHx with PDAF predictions for spring 2023
  • It's my gut feeling that both the GH5M2 and GH6 are EOL.

    There is a lot of conjecture here, but my observations are the following:

    Fire sale of the GH5M2all over (Norway, UK, Germany). Mostly bodies as the GH5M2 kits have been sold out during the black friday week. UPDATE: One retailer lists the GH5M2 as discontinued.

    Also hefty rebates in the GH6 last year (-500 USD in US, same as on the S5 mk I BTW, in europe it was 400 euro winter cash back). Current GH6 discount at B&H is still -300USD. GH6 lens kits sold out from many german retailers, some list mid march for new stock/replacements.

    Also the 12-35 mm f2.8 mk II lens have been observed at dumping prices, i.e. buy a GH6 get the 12-35 mm f2.8 for FREE (Norway).

    So my personal prediction; both the GH5M2 and GH6 are end-of-life. The last GH6 has probably already departed from the factory. New high end m43 camera, probably an upgraded GHx, with the new Pana Leica 12-35 mm f2.8 kit zoom, will be here in 3-4 months.

    Possible/Likely announcement at CP+ in february.

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  • If panafriend does not bring 480fps on 2k on anything pro camera 8k I promise I won’t buy from them no more.

    They are falling behind years now. they need a killer feature before Ai enter inside menus of all cameras and you can add a prompt over the image

    This are the lasts generations of classic proper cameras as we know it.

  • I won't pretend to know much about this as I am not a raw shooter, but guess it's possible, though Panasonic already has pro-res raw, and the masses don't need anything beyond that. I think it is really more GH6 related as they had a similar flop with the GH3. In that case the core users had patched GH2's and there was little justification for paying more for a more professional body but lower bit rates. Maybe I am giving myself too much credit, but my little phase detect leak video did get noticed by many, including Panasonic as I was asked "who told you, phase detect would be in the GH6?". Thing is I get it now, the G9II was already pre-production (this is what I was being told about), and they thought the GH6 would get a pass on other specs with everyone not expecting phase detect anyways, as hardcore users were still fine saying "we don't need AF for Cinema". Well, I think I put a bit of kindling before the inevitable flames as suddenly everyone saw it may actually be coming, and even those claiming they didn't care, clearly did. So when it was released sans PDAF, it was enough of a let down to be essentially DOA in terms of expected or even minimal sales needed. But management is not going to let the team just say "it was a failure, we need to release GH6A (action) or some shit now and accept the loss. They have to push the stock out the door and likely do at least one or two small production runs to make it look like "due to the current global economy sales were lower than expected, however the timing of the G9II was better as the economy has stabilized. We Have Also Learned from the G9II that phase detect was more desired than we previously believed (har har), and data suggests that if we release a GH7 with phase detect before the end of 2024 it will be similar in sales as the now very sucessful G9II release." Thing is they weren't completely wrong to give it to the G9II. The G9 as I have mentioned before is widely successful in Japan with many bird photographers which is a huge market segment in Japan using that camera. Japanese camera people are slow to change camera's only doing so if there is a significant improvement that will greatly increase their experience. Two cameras more than any stand out far above others in the past half decade. The Z9 and now G9II. The Z9 first only appeared with 2 individuals in my go to spot shortly after the release. There was obvious interest from others, but they waited to see how the users felt after a couple months of use, and then 2 more popped up, a month later 6 more, and so on.. The G9II was like this, except one popped up, and a month later 10 popped up. Obviously a less prohibitive price is part of it, but again the G9 was hugely popular, and people who invested in that camera had allot more time to save their yen and justify the doubled price 10 years later. GH7 if indeed coming will be a very interesting test to see if micro four thirds still has staying power in the video crowd. Obviously allot of us here have a special place in our heart for these once little beasts, and I don't think they are going away just yet, but had they made the GH6 phase detect the timing would have been allot better as I think many die hards really just gave up at that point and moved on to aps-c or full frame. (I should probably make this rant a youtube video).

  • @mee

    I wonder if we also can speculate about a possible RAW codec as this point.

    Could camera have been delayed because of some sort of RED CODE RAW licensing announcement pending from Nikon? Perhaps an HDMI output of the RED CODE RAW codec to an external recorder from Atomos?

    This could indeed explain why the GH7 aka P2303A now is 6 months overdue.

    Anyway, NAB begins in less than two weeks. Get ready for Nikons RED plans...

    BTW: Nikon and Atomos is placed right next to each other on the show floor.

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  • @mee

    It is interesting to speculate that Panasonic is holding back on the GH7 until stock of the GH6 is mostly depleted.

    Anyway, sales of the GH6 seems slow, in the summer of 2023 you still got a GH6 with firmware 1.0 from the retailer. Suggesting that all manufacturing was done in the winter of 2021/22.

  • I will be the fortune teller, since I am batting a pretty good average ;) GH7 is very likely coming, as is S2H or whatever they want to call it. It's basically release the GH7 or abandon the line. They just wanted to squeeze as many GH6's out the door as possible before announcing the camera that kills it. S1H2/S2H is a logical choice for PDAF and will likely be a pretty F'n amazing, albeit overpriced camera. Will likely be a pivot point for Panasonic more so than the G7 as those with money will show it to be the best video based camera ever, and they won't be wrong. Sony will be in the shadows for the first time in quite awhile. G7 though will be a nice workhorse sharing many of the same specs, just without the full frame magic.

  • I would certainly not try to take the next job as a fortune teller, regarding PDAF and the GH7. :-p

    But m43 rumours now report that Panasonic has registered another two new cameras for dual band WiFi compliance in China.

    The P2303A camera, wildly speculated to be the GH7, has yet to be announced after almost 6 months since the registration in late september 2023. This is not usual, suggesting a delay for unknown reason. Recall that also the GH6 suffered a long delay back in 2021/22.

    The two new camera models is designated P2302A and P2304A. It's certainly plausible that one or both of these could be some sort of S1xxx mark II update, following up on the latest Leica announcement. If so look forward to some announcement in the may/june timeframe.

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  • The worst prediction thread in 2023. Or whisfull thinking about a GH with PDAF. ;-)

    Anyways, some rumours about CES 2024.

    Panasonic press conference on january 8.

    Quite possbily we will see a Lumic camera announcement at CES (or mid january in worst case).

    Seems to be a 50/50 split on Lumix G (GH7) or Lumix S (some sort of S1xxx mark II).

    Personally I think it's most likely a 60/40 per cent chance that we might see the GH7.

    Reason: continued rumours about a GH7 for the last 6 months, also new model is rumoured to be 6K only, etc.

  • Adorama: GH6 is listed for $1300 now. So, $930 off the MSRP. 42 per cent off.

  • Panasonic now has registered two unknown cameras in the Chinese RF compliance database.

    https://asobinet.com/info-rumor-panasonic-p2301a/

    P2301A

    P2303A

    The naming convention seems to be "P"anasonic 20"23" and followed by a simple serial number. Thus it suggest that a "P2302A" also have been developed.

    No further details is know, however official product announcements should follow in a matter of weeks.

  • 43 rumours informs that a new Panasonic camera was listed in China for RF compliance at the end of september.

    https://www.43rumors.com/panasonic-registered-a-new-high-end-camera-model-in-china/

    This could tie in with the current rumour about the GH7 setting sails for a mid november announcement as listed in the post from september 16.

    I think it's only two possibilities if we ignore the rumour about the GH7 and just assume a new higher end model is a few weeks away: Its either the GH7 or a S1H replacement. And GH7 is in a more urgent need of a replacement IMO given the state of the market. It looks like the GH6 has sold really bad and was given only a single production run at the factory. The sensor is also a weak part in a feature rich camera body.

    And I have read three GH7 rumours during the last six months and nothing on the "S1H replacement".

  • Q4 2023 - GH7
    Q1 2024 - GH7S

  • UPDATE: It was brought to my attention that Panasonic is NOT exhibiting at IBC2023. At least not with an official location.

    Given the photocentric style of the teaser it looks like its a "G9M2".

    Some claims have been given that more Lumix cameras might be released this year.

  • Here is a link to the teaser on Instagram:

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cw2lNpXPWjU/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

    Graphics show "G" and m43 mount so it's the first Lumix G with PDAF.

    Considering it's launced the same week as IBC2023 I would say it's more likely a "GH7" than a "G9M2".

    On the other hand there is a lot of shutter sounds in that September 12 teaser...

  • Finally.

    SEPTEMBER 12.

    A new phase.

    Just before IBC2023.

  • IFA 2023

    Panasonic had a very low key presence at IFA 2023 in Berlin. The exhibition was only open for media and retail. As is now know there was no news about new cameras or lenses. Both the Lumix G and Lumix S range was displayed. There was extra focus on the S5M2(x) after the "award with no name".

    Perhaps the biggest surprise was delivered at the Media Markt retailer at Alexanderplatz: Both Media Mark and Saturn in Germany will stop carrying stuff from Panasonic after a fall out earlier this year.

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  • There was nothing new at IFA. Panasonic had a smaller booth which was just for press and retailers. Full Lumix range was on display, but there was no announcement. Not surprising given the missing rumours before the show.

  • Well, I'm off to Berlin today for IFA.

    I must say that if Panasonic is going to announce anything Lumix related (G9M2, GH7, S1H M2, whatever), the rumour front is absolutely dead...

    Also, Panasonic doesn't have a press conference at IFA at all, but that seems to be the trend for others as well.

  • New rumours, maybe the GH7 after all.

    https://www.43rumors.com/some-wild-gh7-camera-and-om1-firmware-rumors/

    In any case I will be in Berlin on September 1 for the IFA opening day.

  • Scandinvian dealer "Scandinavian Photo" which sells in Sweden, Norway and Denmark has a clearance sale on the G9.

    It should be noted that Panasonic has outsourced the distribution of Lumix stuff to a local nordic company, so this local firesale only means that the Scandinavian distributor needs to get the volume down before the G9M2 announcement.

  • @firstbase You got the DC-BGH1 box cam.

  • Wouldn't it all be nice in more of an updated and streamlined Af100 body with built in XLRs and NDs? I guess they must protect the product line upstream...

  • AJMD: somebody told me the following:
    * Merger of the G9+G90 lines with PDAF. Slimmed down (<600g), but not G90 prices. They consider the weight important to differenciate it from their full frame models.
    * Real time LUTs (photo)
    * 0.8-0.83X EVF, the resolution is not less than 3.68M while focusing or with high refresh rates. EVF sensor at the top.
    * 1.62M+ dots Flip screen (w smaller bezels ).
    * HHHR
    * 4K/60p (10 bit internal recording). No video crop. Good Rolling shutter.
    * Live Composite, Focus stacking
    * 3 line panorama with assist tools (useful for Panorama Bokeh)
    * USB C charging. No included battery charger.
    * 8 way joystick
    * HLG Photo.
    * Auto subject type detection
    * Updated menu structure
    * When using crop modes (16:9, 3:2, 1:1), option to have the cropped area greyed out but still visible or with frame lines."