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Patches work fine until I use native (electronic) lenses
  • Richard_BloodRichard_Blood

    So I thought it may be my sd card (Sandisk 16gb @ 95mb/s), but all of the latest, highest bitrate patches work fine with all of my vintage/manual lenses. The moment I throw on the Lumix lenses, the first recording mode to fail is 720p on all patches. Is this common knowelge and if so, why is that happening?

  • 30 Replies sorted by
  • Richard_BloodRichard_Blood

    Considering this was moved to "beginners" I assume it has been read by someone that knows the answer...any one got a link to the right thread to help me out since the information has apparently been discussed enough before, for this to be a newb type of topic?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I see nothing surprising here. As with many native lenses body also need to correct all distortions :-)

    So, with manual lenses it'll be always more stable.

  • Richard_BloodRichard_Blood

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev so you're saying the gh2 body corrects the image from an electronic lens? In what way? I assumed it had something to do with the fact that the body was just "overwhelmed" with the extra information input from the electronic lens (aperture, focus etc)

    also, would a 64gb capacity card @ 95mb/s handle a native lens better than my 16gb?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Yes, of course. Almost all native m43 lenses have in camera image correction applied.

  • Richard_BloodRichard_Blood

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    Is it known how the camera body corrects the image from a native lens compared to the image coming in from a manual/vintage lens? The lens giving me an issue is the Lumix 20mm 1.7 (no image stabilization in lens) when shooting high detailed/moving subjects or when panning.

    Also, as for sd card selection, is bit rate tied to capacity as well?

    Thanks for your response

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    First, 20mm is sharp, the sharper the image, the bigger is actual bitrate.

    Second, performance depends even on your SD card age and how it is formatted.

    Third, body does not correct any of manual lenses. At all.

  • Richard_BloodRichard_Blood

    Right. So, its my understanding the gh2 writes the files on panny lenses with two sets, one corrected and one not. Which would be like writing twice the amount to the card. Consdering that the "shoot without a lens" option is what takes over when you put on manual lenses, it only writes one file, so to speak? That makes me wonder if there could be a way to "shoot without a lens" on an electronic lens. Or a patch? My card is brand new and formatted with sdformatter and then in camera.

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  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Right. So, its my understanding the gh2 writes the files on panny lenses with two sets, one corrected and one not.

    No. All is the same, correction is invisible to you and happens inside before any compression.

  • Richard_BloodRichard_Blood

    I guess, my point is - since things like geometric/noise correction are done in video mode for the raw files as well, it seems the camera's need to write the extra info into the file just "breaks the camels back"? And beyond that, why would the same card and lens write files from the 1080 modes at much higher bit rates succesfully?

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @Yashica, if you search around this site you may find people who think you are right with going with the 64GB 95Mbs card from Sandisk. If I remember correctly, even though both cards (16gb and 64gb) are "rated" the same speed and capacity, for some reason there might be difference. A lot of people use Lumix lenses with the high bitrate patches/settings and don't have any problem. You can get one of the Sandisk 64gb 95mbs cards and bhphotovideo.com for $98. This card is considered by many the gold standard for using the hacks/settings with stability. It's what I use, and I've only had 1 error in over 2 years of shooting. (There is also a 80Mbs version and a 220mbs version available.)

  • Richard_BloodRichard_Blood

    @matt_gh2 Thanks. I see people having luck with higher capacity cards but really no explanation as to why that is the case. I keep getting the impression that capacity affects bit rate write speed but no one saying why exactly?

  • apefosapefos

    Try this:

    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/11079/workhorse

  • kritzresnkritzresn

    @Yashica

    I think the better explanation is that the CPU draws more cycles to the lens-correction processes, hurting encoding and writing of the files on the card, you also see the same thing when for example you use the digital teleconverter function built into the the GH2 (also known as TEL-EX) while no lens correcting process it does take up extra cpu cycles (probably because of scaling in that case) ending up with the same results as you experience. As Vitaly explains, while non-electronic lenses do not have this drawback using functions like TEL-EX might on non-electronic still hurt your writing stability. There's 2 other functions you should avoid if possible: the: "iDynamic" and "iResolution" functions which draw proccessing power. Personally i prefer to shoot with these off all on full manual mode and never have any crashes with the better patches (driftwood's moon/intravenus/drewnet)

    The 64GB cards are usually better than the 16 and 32, i believe this is also due to a difference in card/controller standard the 95mb 16GB and 32GB are sdhc while the 64GB is sdxc, this probably makes a large difference in stability with the GH2, because it's not just the top write speeds, because when i test my 32GB/95 and my 64GB/95 cards in a usb 3.0 sdhc/sdxc reader and the card reader in my mac mini, the 32GB is actually faster in reading and writing! fyi, 95MB sec is not something most controllers can actually write to it and most cards of the same model actually have a large difference in max writing/reading speed.

  • Richard_BloodRichard_Blood

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev @matt_gh2 @kritzresn Thanks. I keep everything full manual. Ok, gave in - went out just now and bought the 64gb and wouldn't you know it...still getting write speed error message 10 seconds in with this lens on 720SH - thoughts ?

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  • AzoAzo

    @Yashica

    Try Cake V2.3....

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @Yashica Sometimes when one of the setting/patch creators comes out with a new setting, it has problems in some modes, and then they tweak it and then release a new version. Take a look at the thread/discussion on the particular patch/setting you are using to see if an error wasnt fixed with a new release. If that doesn't work, try a different patch/setting perhaps. Which one are you using?

  • kritzresnkritzresn

    @Yashica, did you turn off iResolution and iDynamic as suggested ?

  • Richard_BloodRichard_Blood

    @Azo Tried that patch along with many others. It works. Any patch that keeps the bitrate below 50-60MB/s in 720SH seems to work fine, but I want to run the higher bitrate patches.

    @matt_gh2 I've tried the moons, nebulas, spizz, flowmotions, all the highbitrate and long gop patches (with the exception of drewnet t9 @ around 45mb/s it seems to work in 720SH)....then the sanity, cake, etc (those lower bitrate patches seem to work) but again, that's not what I'm after. I wan't to run the same patches everyone else does, succesfully, with my same camera, lens, and sd card. I still haven't really gotten a clear answer as to why its not working. ESPECIALLY when the 1080 modes work fine and give me bit rates near 160mb/s! That's what killing me. I've read this entire forum for the past month, some things are over my head but for the most part, I'm not doing anything any differently than the people who get this combo to work. No answers, just frustrations.

    @kritzresn Yes. I never turn those on.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Any patch that keeps the bitrate below 50-60MB/s in 720SH seems to work fine, but I want to run the higher bitrate patches.

    Can I ask why? Just for good numbers?

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @Yashica Sounds frustrating - sorry to hear. If you're using a GH2, with Panasonic battery, and Sandisk 64GB 95Mbps card, you should be able to do what others are doing. Confirm that others here have reported back that a particular setting works for 720P. A few random thoughts: make sure to format that Sandisk inside the camera...not on your computer. Did you get your Sandisk card from a reliable seller - Amazon is known to have third party sellers who put fake cards out. Also, I believe I heard that some people think they're putting on a new patch/setting, but havent actually replaced it. You can test this by putting Panasonic regular firmware back on, shoot a clip, and you'll be at under 24Mbps if done correctly. Then put your new patch setting on, and it should be 50,60, or 140 etc. depending on which patch setting you picked. I know this sounds like a bunch of simple stuff, but hopefully its just a simple fix.

    Maybe spring for the 220Mbs card, but ask guys on this forum first if that will make a difference, I wonder if it helps.

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    Maybe try this - driftwood has called it maybe one of best 720P modes.

    http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/10978/driftwood-cluster-x-series-4moon-t8spizz-t7/p3

    Also look at settings/patches by @bkmcwd as he focuses on reliability first, but he really works to get good image results from his settings/patches.

    Best of luck.

  • AzoAzo

    @Yashica

    I have tried just about every patch... All of the patches are reliable in 24p mode, the problems/reliability issues are with the other modes such as 30p/720p. Knock yourself out trying to see which one of those will record reliably in the 720/30p modes. Let me give you a hint, Cake V2.3 is the only patch that will work reliably in those modes.

    All of the patches that record higher then about 45mbps in the 720/30p mode will fail on you. I am trying to save you the time and frustration of testing each patch and wondering why they are failing on you. You stated that you want to run the patches successfully like everyone else above 45mbps, this is exactly the problem that I am talking about. Based on all the tests that I have performed all of the patches that record above 45mbps in modes other then 24p will fail on you.

    Caveat to what I stated above is if you are recording clips or videos for short periods of time. However if you test any patch on this website in the 720/30p mode with the Death Chart for at least 1/2 hr with native Panasonic lenses you will see that all of them fail except Cake V2.3. So like I said knock yourself out, but you are wasting your time thinking that you will be able to record reliably with bitrates higher then 45mbps in the 720/30p modes.

  • Richard_BloodRichard_Blood

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev I guess because my eyes/brain like seeing better image quality and/or more data. I realize that is rather subjective but from the high bitrate clips I've peeped out, mo data mo betta! Or yea, just for good numbers (those high numbers in my clip properties make me feel all warm and cozy).

    @matt_gh2 Yep. GH2, panny batteries, suggested card, etc. I format first with sdformatter on pc and then format in camera. I got my card from bestbuy. I guess its not as simple as it should be! Weird science indeed. I've tried the spizz and the NebulaT8 you linked to (i even posted in that thread about it not working). It puts me in the 60'smb/s for 720SH and fails...

    @Azo That is probably the most concrete answer I've encountered yet. Basically "no one gets successful/reliable writes in 720SH at the highest bitrates". Thanks. I'll stop trying now and settle on DrewnetT9 as my highest 720SH patch when using native lenses.

    So to be clear: Best card or not, the gh2 is only capable of reliably writing 720SH files at around 45-50MB/s and no higher? That statement would probably be extrememly helpful to a lot of new GH2 hackers.

    p.s. I'm gonna laugh my butt off when I put a non native lens on this thing, patch with MoonT8 and get successful writes in 720SH at 70MB/s. Then I'll have some real questions for you guys! Ha

  • AzoAzo

    @Yashica

    "So to be clear: Best card or not, the gh2 is only capable of reliably writing 720SH files at around 45-50MB/s and no higher? That statement would probably be extrememly helpful to a lot of new GH2 hackers."

    Exactly! As I stated above, you will be able to record just not reliably with anything higher then 45mbps in the 720/30p modes regardless of the card/patch that you have. I have tested this extensively on the GH2 save your self time and frustration. The strength of the GH2 is in the 24p mode, if you use it knowing its strengths and weaknesses and work the strong points then you will be happy with this camera.

    The GH2 is not the best for lowlight, depth of field, battery life, ergonomics etc. However, for what it does at its price point it is unbeatable IMO so work the strong points and you will be happy with what the camera can do. Best Regards....

  • Richard_BloodRichard_Blood

    @Azo

    Shot this yesterday. With Drewnet T9 in 720 60SH mode. 30+ minutes down to 30seconds.

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