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12mm f/1.6 Noktor
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  • Can everyone who has infinity focus issues state how old their GH2 model is? This might prove to be good info to determine if camera age has an effect on the infinity focusing.

  • @fosterchen How does that look at home on your computer? Can't really tell on crappy youtube. The Tokina 11-16 looks like it blows this away from this video IMHO.

  • Also, it appears as though their system had an error with my email and UPS causing me not to be notified of shipment. Since I didn't hear anything I asked for it to be cancelled. He now says, even with the admission of the error, that I can send it right back to them, pay for shipping of course and no more than a 20% restocking fee! Are they f*#@king kidding? They admitted a problem and still expect the customer to pay over $100 for the return? There's a problem here and Andrew is watching these boards. I would suggest nobody orders this lens until they can try it out on their own camera.

  • Here's another test for infinity focus (outdoor setting):

  • Andrew emailed me and he said that since the GH2 is a prosumer camera, that it's mount is not built add well as the AF100. The mount comes loose and causes all the problems. So what I get out of that is that the Noktor lens we made for professional cameras only. He said after every person who claimed of focus sent the camera back to panasonic to be repaired, the lenses worked. Sounds weird to me. Anyone here have to send their GH2 back? They also said that they shouldn't have to warn GH2 users about this. Andrew likened it to telling someone who buys a car that they need to change the oil. Not a very customer support response and kind of off base if you ask me.

  • @vicharris They absolutely sent me both a shipping notification and a tracking number.

    @RawB While I suppose the fault could be in our camerras, I used the lens on both a GH2 and an Olympus E-PL2, so it doesn't seem to be a problem limited to the GH2. Also, none of the initial reviews from when the lens was announced mentioned the problems we've encountered. It seems more likely to me that SLR Magic has produced a bad batch of lenses and doesn't want to acknowlege the fact - perhaps because as @Psyco suggests, what ever internal testing they do does not pick up on the defect.

  • Just some thoughts:

    I wonder if this infinity focus problem is more of a not-perfectly-alligned-glas-elements-problem. If one side is worse than the other....tilt shift lenses come to mind (the plane of sharp focus is crossing the sensor, not beeing parallel to it). If one of the several glas elements in the lens are not perfectly in line and perfectly parallel to the sensor, one will get a good infinity focus in one spot but not the rest of the picture. If the lens is only tested with one process/machine (e.g. with laserbeams) the result might be "good" without giving proper focus when taking a real picture. Some other effects decribed here point in the same direction (black corners,..).

  • Perhaps they could provide pics/video that shows they're not having the issue?

  • I send the Slr magic back as a D.O.A , they tested the lens and had no infinity focus problem. Is Noktor right and is it a GH2 problem? I phone them tomorrow to ask on which camera they tested the lens. They want to send me another Slr but I'm not sure if I want the lens.

  • About the reversed focus ring. When i ordered mine i was told by noktor that they were just about to introduce the 'cine' version with reversed focus and that I could choose to get that one, which I did. They said the made it because of videographers asking for it.

  • yes, with tracking number and all

  • I'm having a back and forth with Andrew from Noktor right now. I'll let ya'll know how it turns out. Seems they have shipped the lens to me without any notification at all. It's funny how I only found this out because I wanted my money back and posted here. Did anyone else get shipment notification?

  • dream_beam, i believe you have every right to a FULL refund, there should be no cost to you if the manufacturer has admitted the lens will not be sold again as it doesn't operate as it should.

    I for one will be steering clear of anything SLRmagic in future.

  • SLRmagic believes that it is worth mentioning that my lens will not go back to stock, instead it will be used as a "display lens" only. The "restocking fee" just covers shipping and PayPal costs of the producer.

    Still I guess "restocking fee" for lens that does not operate as it should is not a proper strategy. Anyway I am so much happy getting refund.

  • @crazypete, yuck! That is not good for something this expensive. The Tokina 11-16 doesn't have this problem at all! Yes, it's fastest speed is 2.8 but it's great wide open! I sent an email to Noktor 2 days ago canceling my order but still haven't heard back. Hopefully I won't get the cold shoulder trying to get my money back. Also, I would love to see what the $80 step-up ring looks like. They claim most other manufactures don't work but I ordered a $5 one and I don't see how it could get any more low profile!

  • A couple of video tests I made with the lens on the GH2, 24P, Sanity 5, ISO 200, shutter speed 1/1500. The lens was focused to infinity and set to T1.6.

  • @dream_beam I've gotten the same answer from SLR Magic, that any problems with focusing to infinity are the fault of the camera. That the mounting springs aren't tight enough (the lens certainly feels tight on my mount). That if I had an AF100 then I wouldn't have any problems because that camera is built to professional standards... I experience the focus to infinity issue on both a GH2 and an Olympus E-PL2. The only other time I've seen something similar was when using a cheap adaptor for FD mount lenses - a better adapter fixed the problem.

    @vicharris at this point, I do think your money would be better spent elsewhere. If you can find a brick and mortar store that carries this lens then perhaps you can try several copies and see for yourself or at least have an easier route for return as @dream_beam suggested. Buying direct from SLR Magic just seems like a roll of the dice in terms of what you'll get and I'm regretting it.

    SLR Magic is going to switch lenses with me and I hope that I will get a good copy the second time around. I am paying still more in postage which pisses me off but to make up for it, they have offer to throw in free of charge their step-up ring - a claimed $80 value (I can only shake my head)... They are switching lenses with me not because I was able to convince them that the lack of focus at infinity was an issue worthy of their concern but because I showed them something else that they say they have never seen before. When I stop my lens down to T8-T11 the upper right and left corners go black when shooting in 4:3 format.

    Test pictures taken on my E-PL2, ISO 200, shutter speed adjusted to obtain similar exposure between T1.6 and T11, NR set to off. Lens focused to infinity. It seems to me that the left side of the image is far worse than the right at T1.6 and T2. T2.8 looks the best to me. It may just have been a shift in the clouds or a flutter of the leaves with the wind but T2.8 also seems to have the best colors of the lot. Look at the upper corners darkening from T5.6 to T11.

    T1.6.JPG
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    T2.0.JPG
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    T2.8.JPG
    1024 x 768 - 353K
    T4.JPG
    1024 x 768 - 361K
    T5.6.JPG
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    T8.JPG
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    T11.JPG
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  • While I don't want to give an excuse for sloppy manufacturing, there is a possibility they are right about minor misalignment on the flange distance in the GH2. A very wide angle lens is more critical in this respect. To know if this is really the reason, we'll have to wait for experiences with the Voigtlander 17.5mm, coming from a manufacturer with an excellent reputation for their precision.

    BTW, Nikon is focusing the other way round from anybody else…

  • To make the aperture scale and the distance scale increment or decrement in the same direction... like many other manual lenses.

  • @RawB, it seems that most all of the test lenses that photobloggers got had the focus on reversed (like in your first picture), compared to the lenses now shipping (mine is the same way as yours)...I've asked Andrew at SLR Magic why this is, so waiting to hear back from him. I have a Canon 50mm f1.4 and it focuses infinity turning counterclockwise like our 12mm.

  • @dream_beam So now after months they are telling people that the user has to calibrate a lens for a system they made it for? How come non of the other lenses out there have this problem? Do they say how to calibrate the lens?

  • More explanations received from producer which may help to understand how 'softness'/'unfocused image' may be fixed:

    There is one more possibility for infinity and IQ issues. Sometimes it is the lens mount. Sometimes it is the image sensor position. The AF100 does not have this issue as much as the GH2. The SLR Magic HyperPrime CINE 12mm T1.6 is calibrated for the exact flange distance. People with a camera calibrated correctly does not have any issues and like the exact calibration. People with camera slightly off will experience what you have. The GH2 is a prosumer camera and not made like the AF100 in terms of precision.

    A solution we have for you is it to calibrate the lens to be slightly beyond infinity like lens by other manufactures to avoid issues you have but you will not have the convenience to have perfect hyperfocal shooting and need to rely on the live view.

  • It seems like there's a split of 50/50 about this lens. I understand it's a bit soft and that's the appeal for cine work, which is all I do, but I'm starting to wonder if it's too much of a gamble in terms of craftsmanship. Mine is supposed to ship in a week. We'll see if that happens. My main question, is that $550 better spent somewhere else like the Tokina 11-16 or putting it towards the Voigtlander 17.5? Hopefully everyone that has received one lately can chime in about any real world video testing they've done. Thanks!

  • Financial result experimenting with Noktor 12mm 1.6 totaled USD 177 ( USD 499 paid minus refund USD 387 + shipping costs of USD 65 to send the lens back)

    Thanks to SLRmagic for refund processed anyway.

    Why I bought the lens (pros):

    • I need wide lens for my GH2, mainly for indoor shooting + handheld outdoor,

    • video samples presented in web did show little to none distortion despite of wide 12mm,

    • click less aperture,

    • mft mount,

    • 1.6 aperture as an "option" for low light conditions though 2.0 is acceptable as well,

    • mechanical manual focus is my preference comparing to Oly's 12mm 2.0 fly-by-wire,

    • price (not cheap, although still less expensive than Oly 12mm).

    Why did I return the lens to producer:

    • the lens received is NOT sharp at all. The image is blurred all over at 1.6 aperture to 8.0 and further. Thus 1.6 max aperture of the lenses not an advantage at all. Even 8.0 aperture is not usable.

    Why did I ask for refund:

    • SLRmagic after testing the returned lens informed that the lens was found in 100% perfectly calibrated conditions. They see no problem with my lens. They believe the reason of blurred images should be mount of my GH2 and to fix this I have to apply to Panasonic or... to try another 12mm lens from SLRmagic. I will not dispute about looseness of GH2 mount, though it is pretty much tight, however I do not see any possibilities to calibrate SLRmagic's 12mm lens to my camera without sending my GH2 body to them. It will cost both time and money that is why it is not an option for me and definitely I am no going 'to try another' lens, because the second one my be faulty again.

    If you believe that your 12mm Noktor/SLRMAGIC is not satisfactory, than before sending the lens back try the following tips suggested by SLRmagic:

    QUOTE

    There are three things we could think of that cause you to not get good results. However, we do not know how you set the camera.

    1) Mount spring is loose. It depends on the camera and nothing could be done unless you go to Olympus or Panasonic.

    2) Set EV to negative for stronger contrast.

    3) Set NR to negative for Film Mode for Lumix camera or Set NR to off for Olympus. NR=Noise Reduction

    UNQUOTE

    If you consider to buy this lens I strongly recommend you to:

    • buy from reputable dealer who does not charge silly "restocking fees",

    • the best way to buy is to find a store having several Noktor 12mm lenses at once to choose the best performing.

    Will I buy this lens again?:

    • yes, if the price is USD150 or lower, and if I may choose the best performing one at location store.

    Sorry for the long post, hopefully it will be useful and helpful to take right decision.

  • Hi @RawB. That's interesting about the clockwise and counter clockwise focusing. As for what iso you should do your test shots at, I think you should try to mimic your intended use. I agree that your brick wall picture looks to be focused between the nearest patch of sun light and the vertical painted brick. Do you think your focus is even across the lens? I've noticed that when focusing to infinity, with my lens the left side of the image is worse than the right side. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.