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How to improve low light image quality from iso 12800 and 6400
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  • I downloaded and saw some 176Mbps raw footage and it looks great. But the problem is: high datarate needs expensive fast cards and more cards to get same footage time. Due to this I am keeping the 40Mbps for now. Hope someday I can try higher bitrates myself.

  • @apefos The noise between 40Mbps and 150Mbps is very different. While with at 40Mbps you still fight with alot compression artefacts eating up your details after denoising, the newer driftwood settings deliver something that can seriously be called "close to film grain". This footage can be cleaned much, much better. Since you care about noise reduction in detail I guess you are some kind of pixelpeeper... I tell you: Try them, you will be amazed about what this tiny cam can do! ;-)

  • Free noise software

    I have tried the free handbrace programe for transcoding with great ressolts when noise reduction is applied you can allso try diferent levels or custom setting is very fast with win7 64

  • I used a 40Mbps default gop hack footage to do the neatvideo presets. Each noise pattern was captured to the profile in a selected frame showing more noise and also uniform noise. I do not know if there is a significant difference in noise from 40Mbps to 100Mbps but I think the difference is small.

  • I wonder if this noise reduction technique would benefit from recording at higher bit rates, both for the footage used in building the Neat Video noise models, and for the footage that you're performing the noise reduction on. Even at 3200 ISO, there is a big difference in the representation of noise between ~100 Mbps patch settings and lower bit rate patch settings.

  • @Meierhans thx for the mb preset. i just downloaded it and used only the pop preset. it dose the trick i was missing ;-)

  • new no light test

  • new improvements in noise presets to get less plastic/digital look and also etc (extended tele conversion) noise pattern profiles included, see post number 10 to download the zip file

  • OK! I got it. thanks @Meierhans. Unfortunately I wasn't able to use your MB Looks preset, maybe because my MBL version is still 1.4. But your other advices are very useful to me.

  • It does not matter as long as all your plugins work in 32 bit.

  • Thaks for the exposition and the MBL preset. I'll try it on tonight.

    I can understand the relation between an order of effects and the quality. and another question, if possible?

    in 32bit floating point proccessing system, like some effects or third party plug-ins, will the quality be lost if I wouldn't apply in one process, but devide them by 2 or 3 proccesses.

    f.e. Which will have better quality?

    A. 32bit RGB curve + saturation up by 32bit 3-way color-correction effect.

    B. do them both in MBL

    Thanks in advance.

  • Most of the time it does not, at least when workin in 32 bit, but certain things should be avoided. F.e. you should not undistort or resize your footage before you do noise reduction, as this will lead to a bilinear resize, blurring the original pixels and making it harder for noise reduction to see what is noise and what is detail. Same applies to any kind of bloom, glow or blur. I do all the finetuning in After Effects, as it supports 32 bit rendering. (You can just copypaste a timeline from Premiere to After effects once you are happy with the timing.)

    My normal filter chain is as follows: Neat Video --> ft-Cubic Lens Distortion --> Color Finesse.

    I tune all the clips to look as close as possible with Color Finesse, pushing saturation pretty high so I can see the differences in color better. Then I apply an adjustment layer holding Magic Bullet Looks, bringing down saturation again, going for a certain look. If different clips need different settings inside MB Looks I duplicate the adjustment layer, trim and change what is needed. (You can also keyframe between looks, but i found this quite unintuitive.)

    I added a preset for MB Looks, just for example.

    Filmlook_nondestructive.zip
    10K
  • @Meierhans, thanks for giving me the advice. OK, I'll try that neat-vid-first technique. Indeed it seems to be reasonable. but, still I have a question. does the order of effect on Premiere change the result of video look, more over, quality?

  • I would always apply noise reduction in the first step on the raw footage, then apply levels & curves & looks. If you later realize that you need more or less reduction/sharpening in a certain way you can still go back and tweak neat video. This way you can just load one .dnp into neat video (as long as your iso stayed the same) on first clip and then copypaste the effect onto the other clips. If you do any adjustments before you apply neat video you would need to build a new noise profile each time.

    And don´t limit yourself to just loading .dnp files, get used to the controls inside neat video so you adjust to the needs of the footage (And don´t overdo... nobody is paying for the 3 % less noise.. ;)

  • @apefos, thanks again and I'm testing it on my Premiere Pro CS5 and neat video. BTW, what can I do if I tweak the curve and lighten a footage, for example from iso160? which .dnp profile should I use?

  • Thanks for the presets. For those who are wondering about the difference between V2 and the newer V3 of Neat Video, I would summarize as follows: 1. Make sure you have the "pro" version of either 2. The V3 version is way faster if you have an Intel i7 and/or cuda card. V3 will also run a utility to set preferences for how many CPU cores/GPU cores are used. I would estimate it runs twice as fast on good hardware. The glacial speed of V1 and V2 was the biggest drawback, along with the crashes. The website claims 4x faster with i7 and cuda, I didn't see this, but I was happy with the speed increase. 3. The "auto" sampling setting is slightly better. 4. Slight improvement in quality of noise removal 5. It crashes, but somewhat less than V2. It is less susceptible to multiple effects on the same clip..

  • @apefos it's nice thread and technic! BTW, thanks for informing me that on PM of vimeo.

  • 1200 to ISO 3200

    iso 640

    the details are richs!

  • I think you do not need to worry about differences in the chroma noise because chroma noise is very easy to clean in neatvideo. when chroma noise is high you just need to increase the chroma sliders to clean it. in my experience i found the noise pattern must be accurate to the luminance Y noise.

  • Wouldn't the amount of noise in either of the R, G or B channels also change based on your white balance settings? For example, if you were shooting with the camera at 3200K under tungsten light, wouldn't the blue channel have more noise than if you were shooting with the camera set at 5600K under daylight?

    This might mean making a set of profiles at 5600K and one at 3200K at all the different ISOs.

    Thoughts?

  • Guy's I just shot this video with Quantum v7 all I can say is WOW!!! I was surprise with the quality. Don't mind the language spoken it's creole, it was shot for Haiti's Earthquake second year anniversary. Here is the crazy thing even @ 480p under youtube's compression it looks like it's 720p Quality I'm amazed. Uploaded it to vimeo but it's not allowing me to view it as HD yet.

    Setup: Hack: Driftwood Quantum v7 Profile: Cinema (-2-2-2-2) W.B: Custom Temp 5200k - 5600k Custom Color Balance (Will Post Pictures) Iso: 160 - 400 Lens: Pani 20mm f1.7 / Nikon 50mm f1.8 Lighthing: Halogen / Fluorescent

  • thats great news, so everybody can download and use the presets I saved!

  • @apefos it works in vegas pro 10 with neat 2.6 and in neat 3.0 for virtualdub

  • Outstanding! Your work is really helpful - thanks so much :)

  • I do not know if new neatvideo is better than the old. i think it is just faster. I think the presets I saved can be load to all neatvideo versions.

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