RED surpassed Beats by Dr Dre margins record selling you just consumer SSD

Vitaliy_Kiselev

What I find annoying is that many of the points in JinniMag’s videos have nothing to do with his product or his disagreement with RED. They also have nothing to do with Apple’s disagreement with RED. They appear to mostly be about making RED look bad and perhaps to illustrate a history of behavior for RED. Little of it has legal significance and some of it is rather misleading. In the end I find that weakens JinniMag’s position, not strengthens it.

Mitch Gross, Panasonic employee, Pro department

Really like Mitch, but it is very interesting remark, as we see accidental opening of representative.

We can see how he is afraid about any real research, instead of looking into the mouth and repeating marketing words.

What if Panasonic pro department margins and practices, including patents and their NAND cards full disassembly (at least they are proprietary, but something tells me that chips and stuff are consumer grade inside) will be next?

eddavid

@vitaliy_kiselev Yes, probably should send Jarred and Jim a copy of art of war.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

Oh well. Jim has a nice private island and probably a lot of free time in between developing the red hydrogen 2 and Komodo to read up on this book!

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@eddavid

Get my word -they had no idea who Jinni is :-) And did not spend any time to figure it out much, just celled lawyers are they did hundreds of times before.

eddavid

Also you don't f* with a man who has seen actual war firsthand, not the pretend "war" that Red pretends to think it is, nor a man with a background in computer science vs 2 guys who have zero background in it.

eddavid

The lesson here is you don't f* with a former BBC war correspondant.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@eddavid

Whole thing started from Red lawyers trying to scare Jinni, but as they had no other choice - they started to fight.

eddavid · Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 7.43.24 PM.jpg

Maybe the most honest assessment of all of this drama.

eddavid · Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 7.41.40 PM.jpg

The Reduser experience, distilled in two screengrabs.

sammy

@alcomposer 100 percent, if you have the money why by Red? Arri all the way

eddavid

Red went for resolution while Arri went for color science and dynamic range. Guess which one Hollywood DPs prefer.

Crazy story about Zaxcom. I looked into that - yea JuicedLink ended all public showings.

Corporations may not be the saints that we are taught they are in school. Elon Musk may not be the saviour of humanity. And Jim Jannard maybe nothing but a snakesoil salesman.

I love in his deposition he said it was crucial to pretend they had redcode going in their camera at first to create "the myth" that they needed. He's a mythmaker, selling these poor young skater kids on the dream of being a Peter Jackson by using his camera.

Now that the illusion is lifting, I don't know how many skater kids are going to want to buy into the myth, starting at the low, low price of $10,000.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@alcomposer

I want to add Z-CAM E2 lineup in the middle :-)

alcomposer

Well looking at this list: https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/cameras-lenses-2019-oscar-nominations/

We don't need to worry that much.

Simple: don't use Red- if anyone has that much money to spend (or working on a big budget feature- use Arri) Otherwise... FujiFilm X-T3 looks really good these days :-)

Vitaliy_Kiselev

According to Steven Bach in his book, Final Cut, the MPPC even went to the extreme “solution” of hiring mob-affiliated thugs to enforce the patents extra-judiciously. Pay up — or else.

Modern corporations also use this or similar approaches.

Can just remember story of JuicedLink where Zaxcom lawyers and may be hired criminals scared man so much that he not also closed all firm, but deleted all unrelated information.

jleo

looks like not much has changed since Edison monopoly and Edison's claim to inventions he bought or stole :)

In short, if you wanted to be in the movie business, you did so at the pleasure of Thomas Edison. And Edison (via the MPPC) was not one to back down. The Company took to the courts to prevent the unauthorized use of everything from cameras to projectors — and in many cases, the films themselves. According to Steven Bach in his book, Final Cut, the MPPC even went to the extreme “solution” of hiring mob-affiliated thugs to enforce the patents extra-judiciously. Pay up — or else.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/51722/thomas-edison-drove-film-industry-california

https://www.ranker.com/list/things-edison-claimed-to-have-invented/melissa-sartore

eddavid

And in the reduser comments, Jim Jannard is spoken about in same breadth as Elon Musk. I mean, if anyone wants to look into Elon he is not what he seems either. Nor is Steve Jobs.

I feel like in our post-industrial capitalist era, we treat all these people - Elon and Steve as gods. And Red created a myth that they were the Apple computer of cinematography, a band of outsiders who started it in their garage, metaphorically speaking.

And now when confronted with the lie, people say "I already knew" or "they had to do that to succeed."

Which is all bizarre defense of it, and again, the unwillingness to let go of a myth.

For me now it's all psychological watching what's happening to the consumers of their products.

And finally, to the industry people who said they knew it was an open secret, again, when Jim was lying publically on reduser and dvxuser and cinematography.com and they knew he was lying - isn't that pretty ethically bad?

To allow a company to willingly lie to its customers about its sensor development?

Don't you think an industry insider should have seen this as something not ethically right?

And again, to these industry insiders, I do wish you will come forward now with other industry secrets of red before they are revealed, as to me, that would be the moral thing to do. Because again this is a campaign for me about consumer advocacy.

The same campaign I helped on with getting the astra light repair program.

It's all the same.

We are all consumers who spend millions. We demand the people who make our goods to be honest to us. And if not, to be held accountable.

eddavid

@EspenB That is really cool - that's now a good place to look to see what's the next 3 years of cameras will look like.

So now the latest trend on the red apologists is "it was an open industry secrete they got their sensors from Forza."

Oh really? Well when Jarred and Jim and Ted were lying about this on public forums, why didn't anyone correct this?

And what are the other open secrets about red you aren't telling us about, oh wise internet posters?

Even Peter Benjamin, Land's allegedly sockpuppet account doesn't state this.
I'm kind of now preferring how Peter Benjamin is handling this vs the "community."

Man the cinematography nerd community is a weird one.

Always one to try to defend the corrupt and powerful and status quo.

Guess that's how the world works.

Those who side with the little guy are mocked and feared. And so many unwilling to stick their neck out, to rock the boat. Scared of lawsuits. Afraid of the billionare class. All consumed with countless movies playing out in our heads that strike fear into us.

That's for me the bigger issue. And why things in the US are so corrupt.

Everyone just trying to make the least amount of noise as possible.

Everyone afraid to "ruin" their reputation over anything.

EspenB

A few interesting links regarding high end image sensors:

https://www.vision-systems.com/cameras-accessories/article/16736790/future-architectures-for-cmos-image-sensors

https://www.vision-systems.com/cameras-accessories/article/16737316/cmos-imagers-look-to-increase-dynamic-range

EspenB

Here are a brief on the DALSA 4K camera back in 2005:

https://www.teledynedalsa.com/en/news/newsroom/dalsa-origin-footage-featured-in-first-international-real-time-collaboration-on-4k-digital-cinema-content/

"OriginR is the world's only 4K digital movie camera."

"Brian Doody, President, DALSA Digital Imaging. "We've long believed that 4K is the future,"

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@eddavid

RED patent is doomed, and it is doomed not because "Chinese cameras" (actually Z-CAM fully avoids the patent same way BM did), it is doomed because smartphones come close to start recording compressed raw video and they require quite high compression ratios. Chinese can help here, of course, as if trade war will go further they will just drop keeping any US patents and Apple and Google will be forced to follow by just trashing RED into ground to keep up.

eddavid · Screen Shot 2019-09-22 at 9.29.04 PM.jpg

Peter, as opposed to "cheap Singapore-made cinema cameras aimed at skater kids that are marked up 100x?"

eddavid

@espenB At this point, it's really sad. It's not fun to watch, it's starting to get depressing. Can you imagine what Jannard will think once he finds out what his son has been up to?

EspenB

Here there suddenly is a confirmation that sensor design is outsourced.

eddavid

Also peter jarred land is Jarreds full name according to his deposition on apple v red

eddavid

finally, now "Peter Benjamin J." on reduser seems to be the same user in the youtube comments posting as "Peter John" by using the common word, "salty" - again something not many people use in their everyday language. So is Jim Jannard or Jarred Land now posting as alias on reduser and youtube? Has it gotten this sad? Walter White and Badger doing trouble again.

eddavid

also this is awesome: https://art19.com/shows/the-sydcast/episodes/e8c516c6-c8a2-4441-af1c-3620f77e2609

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