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Panasonic GH1 - Film Mode Settings
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  • Dude, it might be easier if you understood about lighting. Essentially you're shooting against a bright background with your subjects' faces in shadow. Unless you properly light your scenes, say with a reflector, it won't matter what camera you use or what settings it's on. I couldn't even finish your video, because I was so disgusted with the lack of proper lighting. I suggest that you actually take a class on basic photography and that you pay attention to understanding lighting and balancing exposure between the natural background light and the light used to enhance the image. In this case, the problem isn't the camera.
  • MrAnthony, this is not a movie production, this was just a walk with my family and shooting some moments. So you had to get the logic that no any reflectors or accessories would be used. Actually, I haven't taken any class of photography, but I perfectly know about avoiding shooting against the sun, bright background, etc. I've never said the camera is the problem is such a moments, but even in the successful episodes (which you've obviously missed) you can see the artificial contrast of these cameras. Whatever you do, you can't avoid it, even in post. If you try to reduce the contrast or blacks in post, then the picture becomes poor and weak, you know. And all this is generally because of the lack of superflat cine settings in the camera. I believe you've seen many documentaries, serials and motion pictures with shooting against the light, but the result is simply very different, I guarantee.
    Meanwhile, I took 550D from a friend just for some tests with new Technicolor CineStyle patch applied. Oh, your imaginary is just poor to get what huge the difference is when using this mode equivalent to the budget camcorders.
    Anyway, I still can't find the reason why G2 returns the contrast to its default. Once its custom set up, is ok. Then during shooting, the default contrast returns. And when the shooting is stopped, the custom contrast settings appear again. Hmm, really weird!!!
  • @producer People don't like... ambiguous questions that have no answer. You are just spinning wheel. I had asked about film look & feel a year ago. Maybe no answer is the true answer. I don't care about film look anymore. Nobody knows :)
  • stonebat, that's what I actually asked: "Anyway, I still can't find the reason why G2 returns the contrast to its default. Once its custom set up, is ok. Then during shooting, the default contrast returns. And when the shooting is stopped, the custom contrast settings appear again. Hmm, really weird!!! "
  • >>I believe you've seen many documentaries, serials and motion pictures with shooting against the light, but the result is simply very different, I guarantee.

    Yes, because those people actually know what they're doing, actually understand their equipment, understand proper lighting, etc. Please read my replies again, very carefully. You are asking for settings to replace your brain. Everything you want to accomplish can be done, but YOU will have to do it. There are no magic settings. If you truly believe another camera is better, perhaps you should get it, get the patch that gives you that crappy look, and move along. I suspect your problem isn't the camera.
  • MrAnthony, what's wrong with you?!?!? Don't want to turn this topic into aggressive arguings by your side, but the fact that you compare crews and equipment with me and this modest camera model, speaks by itself. What magic settings, what replacing of brain?!? Which generation are you? Yes, I decided about Canon, but at the last moment I changed my mind, unfortunately. Another fact that you're so stubborn in denying something that more than half of the shooting community all around the world appreciates mostly, speaks by itself again. Your aggressive words make me curious to see something made by you and then to compare it with the "crappy look" (OMG!!!). Do you think you would be able to shoot with HVX, A1 or XDCAM? I doubt, because they all produce the "crappy look" that you hate so much, and I know your reason... ;)
  • @producer
    Stay on topic and do not make it personal, ok?
    People said good and useful things, you just need to hear them :-)
  • Vitaliy, do you really think that I'm the one who makes it personal?!? Those useful things I read and experience since long time ago. Anyway, I strongly count on you about extending picture parameters (incl. cine flat) someday. This will definitely increase the capability of G/GF/GH.
    If MrAnthony thinks that the flat image gives crappy look, then let him answer: does he think that if the last season of "House" was shot with G/GF/GH with their standard limited image settings instead with Canon 5D Mark II the picture would be the same? Yes two different sensors and not only that, of course. But the entire season was shot with super flat image settings of the camera for further post processing. That's the only simple thing I request for my G2.
    Vitaliy, sorry to ask again: do you have any idea about the back to the default contrast during shooting? Once the shooting stops, the contrast again goes to the custom value.
  • @producer
    Again, read that people told you. I am 100% agree with them.
    As for contrast settings - I do not know that you mean.
  • @Vitaliy: For contrast settings, I already posted about that:
    johnnym wrote: "All settings in film mode (nature or nostalgic) at -2 (except maybe NR, because i have a GH1 :) Then shooting underexposed, monitoring the histogram, and converting the AVCHD files with 5D2RGB.":
    Then I replied: Yes, I always use this way of settings, and adjusting the exposure 2-3 lines down gives very close result of cine flat image. BUT: when pressing the buttons for taking picture or video, the image immediately changes to its default contrast. All other settings of WB, ISO, Nostalgic mode, etc. stay unchaged, but why the contrast changes back to its default value during shooting?!? I tried in P, A, S - absolutely the same situation, even with other manual lens. And after the recording is stopped, the contrast goes back to the custom settings I've done before starting to shoot. Any ideas about how to keep the custom contrast level? Another user here mentioned about the same weird situation before my post. Maybe something in the camera settings?
  • @producer
    please don't take all this personally, but trust me when I say this, you'll be a happier man when you start worrying less about settings and superflat curves and more on other aspects of image-making. If you really really are so interested in superflat and want to worry, first grab some real books on color correction, forget about cheesy plugins, learn about individual controls, understand that one of the main jobs of a colorist is to spread an image, within legal levels, from 0 to 100 IRE because that's what looks best for the magority of images. Having a superflat image of a scene( that in real life contains both hot highlights and shadows) whose entire IRE is in the middle, and looking at a Luma Waveform graph reaches from let's say 20 to 80 will probably be of no use in that state. Also, unless you know very, and I mean very carefully what u are doing, for the love of God do NOT underexpose your image by 2-3 stops just to get flat. especially with 8-bit avchd camers! that's crazy, and even more so with known banding issues. If you do so, good luck lifting the shadows.
  • That's what I mean partially:

    So, is it about theory of shooting or something else I'm talking many times about?!?
  • @producer Set all settings you need and save it as Customs setting 1. Usually Customs mode persists all my settings including film mode settings. At least it worked for me in GH1. No I don't have G2.

    Believe it or not, I like some of the comments in this thread. We all can agree to disagree, but this is good thread to keep and digest.
  • Thanks, stonebat, I did it already few days ago saving it as Custom 3, the same result. Ok, I will try as Custom 1 although I don't think this has matter...
    For those who still take cineflat image as a crappy look, just look at this:
    http://eugenia.queru.com/2011/06/05/terminus-by-solomon-chase/
    "Canon 5D MkII, and the Technicolor CineStyle picture style; which allowed for an amazing look. The Technicolor CineStyle picture style has even replaced my own ExtraFlat style, as it’s… even flatter and with more dynamic range in the shadows."
  • @ Producer: Quit trolling. Try reading and listening for a change. Even in the link you cited, there's a whole section you ignored on the post-processing to get those images as well as the huge financial investment to get those images. Sheesh.

    And yes, I think it's a crappy look, that flat-look you keep pushing. One need only look at the marvelous film technicolor images, beautifully saturated and photographed, to see why that flat look isn't the only way to make something "film-like." Look at Gone with the Wind, the Wizard of Oz, and The Adventures of Robin Hood, for example. They do not have that flat look at all.

    Again: learn about lighting, metering, and how to use your equipment. I guarantee that those things will pay off more than any hack. If you take a good class in photography and lighting, you will be a better photographer.

    As for your rants citing "House" and other shows, remember that they have a ton of money and a ton of people using lots of expensive software to do all the post-processing they want. When those places achieve their final images straight out of the camera, then come here and cite them.

    Otherwise, please stop wasting everyone's time asking for some kind of magic hack to replace basic exposure and lighting skills. If you properly lit your subjects and exposed correctly (and properly selected the correct settings on your equipment, which you clearly don't know how to use), you would achieve the initial look you seek which you could post-process to your heart's desire. If, on the other hand, you insist on exposing incorrectly and refuse to properly light your subjects, then nothing will help.
  • "And yes, I think it's a crappy look, that flat-look you keep pushing. One need only look at the marvelous film technicolor images, beautifully saturated and photographed, to see why that flat look isn't the only way to make something "film-like." Look at Gone with the Wind, the Wizard of Oz, and The Adventures of Robin Hood, for example. They do not have that flat look at all. "
    I was right in my conclusion about you. I don't break out into abuse about the way you like a look to be, why do you feel so nervous about my criteria which is highly appreciated long ago before me?!? Still curious to see something yours although I think I know what to expect.
  • I think 5dtoRGB is stunning, as it reveals a ton of detail in the shadows, which i would have sworn, is not there in the first place. What I think is missed here- is that the FLAT look is not to be kept in the picture, but is a good starting point for color-correcting the footage, as it keeps more detail in the shadows aswell as in the light areas, for me flat would be superb- but to colorgrade it afterwards!
  • fatpig, who said something different? Another person who gets the right point. Of course, that's the general purpose of the flat image which to be processed in post especially for color grading, keeping much more details mostly in the darks/blacks - that's what I was trying to explain to some persons here who highly misunderstand it; and that's why all the budget camcorder have it integrated.
  • Here is small video with recent interview about Technicolor
  • Very interesting, especially that they had to work directly with Canon engineers to get access to the signal. I highly doubt Panasonic is going to ever help you out!

    @ Producer: Since you can't afford to even get another camera and you can't be bothered to learn exposure or lighting, I highly doubt you'd learn how to properly color process in post. I don't feel the need to show you jack, since you don't know your gear, don't know your software, and don't want to learn lighting. You're good at logos on your videos though.
  • this video should really clear up the mess in this thread, he explains it all, and nothing to argue ;) vitaliy: is there a possibility of something like this in GH2?
  • I think MrAnthony thought, that the flat-look was to be kept in your movie as-is.

    edit: just tried 5dtorgb, and it does not seem to do any difference on GH2, but it could be my source material is too dark.
  • A movie maker friend of mine told me once that you can't effectively work on colors in post with GHx or DSLRs, I presume the "problem" is to not have RAW format out of our cameras. He also told me that the point in shooting with post in mind was because shooting in professional productions is far more expensive than fixing in post. For cheap independent works, it looks a better idea to keep the files as they are, and re-do shooting if necessary.
  • This is kinda getting interesting... but what GH series really needs is better DR out of a sensor in the first place. Then 10-bit codec. Then such flat color profile.

    BTW the guy looks like the architect from Matrix.
  • stonebat, youre right surely, but i think we established that better dr and 10 bit is not going to come to gh2, so flat picture style is really all we have, right?

    vitaliy- is a flatter picture profile a possibility with hack?