-
Another quote on Panasonic considering GH5
No eunuch flatters his despot more basely or uses more despicable means to stimulate his dulled capacity for pleasure in order to sneak a favour for himself than does the industrial eunuch – the producer – in order to sneak for himself a few pieces of silver, in order to charm the golden birds, out of the pockets of his dearly beloved neighbours in Christ. He puts himself at the service of the other’s most depraved fancies, plays the pimp between him and his need, excites in him morbid appetites, lies in wait for each of his weaknesses – all so that he can then demand the cash for this service of love.
K. Marx
In other words - Panasonic is not making GH5 in most efficient, cheap and upgradable way. Panasonic is making camera that will provide maximally possible profit, but will still have enough bite features to lure you, to make you pay for them. And 6 months after GH5 release they will offer similar product but for ones who just did not have enough silver pieces for first one, but margins will still make all shareholders more than happy. Your function is not to use existing products to make films or photos - your sole and only important goal is to consume Panasonic products.
-
LOL. You are right. But his post was above big ones of yours and also not short. So it is some sort of cognitive thing.
-
@Vitaliy_Kiselev but I think you are both talking about @Brig, not me.
I simply wrote articles about the GH5 and wanted to discuss more about codecs, encoding, etc.
I've never talked about JVC firmware, Panasonic and him or anything like that, his reply doesn't seem to address anything I was talking about, otherwise I've no idea what's going on.
-
Because you mentioned him, without actually thinking about him. As you wanted to write mr. Driftwood, and not that you wrote. You had been corrected already.
-
@LPowell Why are you tagging me into that discussion? I've never mentioned you, I don't even know who you are nor the people that were talking about you. I think you are mistaking me with someone else.
-
...good job panasonic, for bringing mr. Powell on board!
Sorry to dash your hopes, but no lucrative offers have appeared in my in-box from Panasonic. I doubt they were favorably impressed by my skeptical public assessment of 8-bit V-log L, and they evidently did not regard my endorsement of JVC's firmware update pricing policies as something to emulate. However, I'm always happy to provide advice on any technical issues Panasonic may wish to discuss on this forum.
-
Another thing that I thought is that if this is indeed a multi-aspect sensor and it works similarly to the LX100. It means that in 16:9 it might be 18MP, but in 4:3 it's 20+MP, in 3:2 is 19-20MP, this turns this Photo 4K much closer to the E-M1 II's 60fps burst, but again, different approaches, faster RAW burst vs longer JPEG burst.
Also, if Panasonic does improve AF tracking and it works in Photo 6K, it means that 30fps is faster than E-M1 II's 18fps in AF-C, which is Panasonic's way to also bring interesting feats for Photographers as well since they see the GH5 as a hybrid.
I say that because I would had preferred if Panasonic separated the GH5 and GX8 II line ups into 13MP and 24MP, both with V-log so they can also complement each other, like Sony does with the A7s and A7R, they would still be hybrids but each focused in a different front, it would bring less compromise for photo and video.
-
@endotoxic this is not about being productive though, at least I didn't do this with that in mind, it's simply that I do that with everything, I like the speculation and digging things deeper until I find something that makes sense, it's a necessity in some ways. Sometimes I just have to get these things out of my mind, so I write them down, also because I feel frustrated when I get things right but I didn't register it anywhere.
Anyway, I will keep writing things until I find some purpose to it, I think I'm getting there, meanwhile there are a few things I still want to understand better. But don't worry, nothing is a waste, plus English is not my native language so this also helps as an exercise... hahaha...
I wished someone could help me with this:
- How much more a Long GOP encoding demands from your computer when compared to Intra and the encoding time difference?
- Is the difference something that kind of work for all different codecs or each codec is very different from the other?
- What's the difference in encoding time for the new hardware/software that already supports HEVC when compared to AVC?
- What's the difference between HEVC Intra and AVC Long GOP in both encoding time and hardware demand to edit it smoothly without the need of transcoding?
-
Hey, you should write tech books, you have a lot but lots of imagination and creativity. Investing so much time in a camera that is not even here is counterproductive. But you have free will and thats fair.
-
@Brig , i assume you are in a bad mood.
Your post is malicious, but what get me thinking is the real purpose of that post.
Reactions for Panasonic. Shit maybe you are a Panasonic guy seeking for more data.
Don bring Mr Driftwood on your comments, he for sure is someone that i think represents the spirit of this forum and an example of how interesting this website is.
GH5 will be fine because we are Hypernaturalised, we will buy it if we like it, and we know Panasonic as other companies are big fuckers relaying on maximum profit to make businesses.
Excuse me but your post is maybe one of the lamest post i have ever seen in my life. Its just my personal view.
-
First of all, Good Luck to Mr. Powell in his new adventure (I hope he will be trying to bring in some logic and common sense into corporate heads) and THANK YOU LPowell again, for everything YOU and OTHERS did so far for us, the actual users and clients of panasonic!
Who brought @LPowell on board? Or you mean @ driftwood ?
No, I am not malicious, but with the job you do right now with GH5 and other crippled products you are planing to put out on market, expect that due to bad sales, panasonic eliminates camera production alltogether (like samsung) and focuses exclusively on making air conditions, battery chargers and toasters and coffeemakers. Therefore, in a year and half you might be probably jobless if you don't pay attention.
Just strike ahead to scare them, right? :-) Or just in the bad mood today?
-
@Brig - I'm sure that friendly, well crafted letter to Panny will have them glued to this thread from now on
-
All this GH5 rummors farse is just a bunch of Bollocks!
Quite a dissapointment....albeit not unexpected move :(
First of all, Good Luck to Mr. Powell in his new adventure (I hope he will be trying to bring in some logic and common sense into corporate heads) and THANK YOU LPowell again, for everything YOU and OTHERS did so far for us, the actual users and clients of panasonic!
Second, good job panasonic, for bringing mr. Powell on board! It seems that after all, somebody on your team finnaly took off their ND's from their optics and unplugged their ears.
Now, rummor has it that Panason is "closely watching" this thread. Well in that case, pleaseeeeee READ ME CAREFULLY:
Interesting joke you pulled with this announcement (of nonexisting camera with undefined and as such wrong specs one year before it needs to hit the shelves of the stores?!?!?!?! Wtf?!?!??) demonstrates that you are either completely lost your mind and ths you are uncreative and don't know what the heck you should be doing next or you are completely lost you mind you are uncreative and you are trying to make us, your customers, into idiots! Which is very wrong and mean:(
You have us here discussing sensor size, ibishtisandthat, titfortat on a camera that suppose to show up possibly never..?!?! Well braaaaavooooo!!!! You realy know how to sugercoat your carrot. You realy know how to make a fool of someone.
But be ALERT!!! We are not aline in this riddle...
First I have a question to G/GX/GH development teams: In which company and what positions are you going to apply for your next job in spring of 2018? Older ones among you, how's your 401 and other pension plans?
No, I am not malicious, but with the job you do right now with GH5 and other crippled products you are planing to put out on market, expect that due to bad sales, panasonic eliminates camera production alltogether (like samsung) and focuses exclusively on making air conditions, battery chargers and toasters and coffeemakers. Therefore, in a year and half you might be probably jobless if you don't pay attention.
Why? Well, let me put it mildly: Would you buy GH5 if camera is the way it is now? Exaclty...you wouldn't. So what makes you think that we will?
Good Luck! Get Smart! Best Wishes!
-
I wrote another article focusing on the sensor, this time putting a few more pieces together and I think that multi-aspect sensor is what makes the most sense.
Panasonic GH5: the Sensor has to be multi-aspect!
My best guess is a 22+MP multi-aspect sensor, possibly based on DCI (1.8x crop) instead of 16:9 (1.85x crop*) for a bit more than 5760px wide and a Micro4/3 area of 20MP, possibly the same pixels size and count than Olympus E-M1 MK II.
*we usually say 1.86x crop but if you do the math, it's much closer to 1.85x, but let's not get lost in technicalities because that's not the point and nor that important
If Photo 4K has that name based on UHD at 3840 x 2160, then we could expect Photo 6K to be something around the 6K version of 16:9, so 5760 x 3240px.
On Panasonic's press release, it says that Photo 6K is 18MP (6000 x 3000px) still grabs from video footage - which is a generic way to say it will have a video-like aspect ratio. But they also mention that the source of the video can either be 4:3 or 3:2, which is quite weird. Why would Panasonic even mention 3:2 as the video source? This is a clearly indication of full sensor readout, but why 3:2?
The 16:9 multi-aspect sensor used in the GH1 and GH2 are almost 3:2 and a DCI based multi-aspect is 3:2, for me, this is another argument that it might be multi-aspect, otherwise, I don't understand why being a 4/3 sensor Panasonic would mention 3:2 aspect ratio as a full readout video source for Photo 6K.
But why did they mention 4:3 then? Simply because they didn't want to confirm multi-aspect sensor, wouldn't people start asking themselves why a video from a 3:2? There is a possibility of Panasonic using a 4:3 of 25MP to 28MP? Of course there is, it's just very unlikely.
More importantly, there were rumors saying it was going to be multi-aspect and also rumors saying 20MP. But why 20MP? Because the Micro4/3 portion of the sensor is 20MP, just like the GH2 was called a 16MP camera, when in fact it had more than that for the whole sensor. Plus, because part of the sensor is outside the image circle, the max resolution you get with the GH2 is indeed 16MP in 4:3, 15MP in 3:2, 14MP in 16:9 and 11MP in 1:1, therefore a 16MP camera.
I said that the 20MP portion could have exact same pixel count as Olympus because I suspect they were developed together, the same way the E-M5 and GH3 had the same sensor, E-M1 and GH4 and also GX8 and Pen-F. It makes sense for the E-M1 MK II and GH5 to be based on the same sensor tech, plus, there were also rumors about Panasonic and Olympus sharing technology and even LSI components. Having the same pixel count and size, it's possible to share the sensor wafer, micro lens, color filter, etc. it saves you production cost money because you can both use the same parts, just different sized sensors.
The greatest thing of multi-aspect sensors is that for lenses, nothing changes since it's all within the same image circle, so you can either use native lenses or focal reducers like Speed Booster without worrying about the extra FOV of the multi-aspect sensor. So yeah, when using the 0.64x Speed Booster, you could get less than 1.2x crop, even closer to 1.15x crop with the Speed Booster and multi-aspect sensor combo. I would still prefer less crop to use APS-C lenses like the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 and 50-100mm f/1.8, even more with IBIS, but for those wanting the 1.33 extra stop of light and closer to FF, then the 0.64x will get you pretty close to FF.
Again, this is my best guess:
- 22+MP multi-aspect sensor
- DCI based (approx. 1.8x crop) or 16:9 based (approx. 1.85x crop)
- at least 5760px wide, probably a few pixels more to accommodate DCI 4K and Photo 6K
- the Micro4/3 portion and max resolution of the camera will be 20+MP, so the GH5 will be a "20+MP camera"
- 20+MP will be possibly the same pixel count and size as the E-M1 II
I also wrote about other possibilities including other resolutions like 6114px or even the scenarios of not choosing a multi-aspect sensor. Just like I also countered the idea of Panasonic straight out deceiving consumers with nothing like 6K in Photo 6K but just 18MP, which I find kind of odd since there is no need to Panasonic to deceive consumers and they haven't done anything like that ever before. Photo 6K is not the main feat of the GH5, it's 10-bit 422 and 4K 60fps, why mention 6000 x 3000px if they were simply going for 30fps full sensor burst?
There is always that possibility, but logically speaking that has to be less likely than going back to the GH line up roots of multi-aspect sensor. I mean, this line up was developed with multi-aspect in mind from the get go. But sure, this is still just speculation, but I like the odds of a multi-aspect sensor.
It's worth noting that the E-M1 II full announcement is quite imminent and giving that the E-M1 II will have the same 200mbps Full HD All-I codec as Panasonic already use, the full specs of the E-M1 might gives a few hints about whether or not Panasonic and Olympus are really partnering up or how deep they are sharing and developing technology, and of course, hints about the GH5 as well.
-
Hello,
I'm not sure if I was supposed to create a new topic or not, but as it's GH5 speculation related so I will post here, if not, let me know and I move it.
I made a 4 articles series speculating over what we know and what could possibly be achieved. I wrote them because I want to discuss about it and so far, I have been doing more explanation on GH5 Facebook group than properly discussing and I wanted people more knowledgeable than me to help me understand the things I don't.
- Part 1: Overheating and IBIS: https://goo.gl/1NcXv8
- Part 2: Codecs and AF Improvements: https://goo.gl/vDya1v
- Part 3: Photo 6K and GH5's sensor: https://goo.gl/4jZYJx
- Part 4: Slow Motion and ProRes: https://goo.gl/jPW736
I don't think that the Part 1 is that much interesting since more rumors have been popping up stating that it will have IBIS, and I made an article just contesting fallacies and showing how having IBIS made more sense than not having it.
I tried to speculate about the codecs in Part 2 but I have some questions about it and it would be nice if someone could help me.
- Is there major differences in file size between 10-bit and 8-bit? From my understanding, it increases from 256 to 1024 the possible "nuances" for each channel but if both are encoding in 422, unless it's a scene that demands high dynamic range, the difference in data shouldn't be that big, right? Is this assumption correct?
- So far I would like an H.265 Intra codec but I don't know the parameters as for how much more processing intensive H.265 is when compared to H.264. I say that considering new CPU and GPU that already supports H.265 with compatible software as well. In my mind, if it's all compatible, being an Intra codec, a H.265 Intra codec should be better for transcoding or even editing than an H.264 Long GOP one. Does it make sense? My whole point is that I think an H.264 Long GOP codec is more likely to happen but I prefer an H.265 Intra because it should be better and more future proof. I think that both would be about the same file size, right?
In Part 3 I speculated about what Photo 6K really is and what the sensor can be. In summary Photo 6K is a full readout 30fps burst of a 2:1 area of the sensor, which I find pretty weird. From that I'm assuming it will be 4K without crop and downsampled from the full readout, otherwise why would they do Photo 6K if that can't turn into 4K without crop?
Assuming it's a multi-aspect sensor and trying to fit a DCI 4K aspect ratio within the Micro4/3 image circle the sensor would be pretty much a 3:2 sensor. From previous rumors we can either have a sensor with 20MP for the 4/3 area and 22MP total for about 5800x3900 or a 24MP total for 6000 x 4000 and 22MP in the 4/3 area.
I'm a bit skeptical about moving from 20MP in 4/3 area because there were rumors saying it was a 20MP and at the same time, I have my suspicions that Panasonic and Olympus are have been working together for the sensor tech. Since the E-M1 is a 20MP sensor, I would think that if true that they somehow worked together, the GH5 would try to keep the same 20MP in the 4/3 area. Well, more on that in the article.
In Part 4 I followed the idea of full sensor readout and wondered if 4K 60p without crop would be possible. The E-M1 can do 60 fps burst of RAW images from the full sensor readout so I would like to think it's possible. For me Photo 6K and 60fps RAW are similar, but one is derived from video for longer shootings and the other is more photo related, to a RAW burst but also from full sensor readout.
If 60fps full sensor readout is possible, then, in theory if you read skipping a line for 4x less resolution and downsample it to 1080p, you should be able to read 4x faster. So let's say it's a 6000 x 4000 sensor, instead of doing full read out it skips a line and read 3000 x 2000 and then downsample the 16:9 area of 3000 x 1500 to 1080p with 4x speed for 240 fps. Downsampling should keep a pretty good quality.
Or if it's not the same sensor tech as Olympus and it's only 30fps, then it could be 120fps and do a 1:1 pixel crop at 1080p and get the 240fps.
But Panasonic and Olympus have been sharing the same sensor so many times. GH3 and E-M5, E-M1 and GH4, GX8 and Pen-F, it would make sense if they are sharing something between E-M1 II and GH5.
Also the E-M1 II has 200mbps 1080p All-I, which is a bit of an odd addition since it's not as marketable as 4K, and it's interesting since Panasonic is the only one using that same option in the GH4 and FZ2000.
As for ProRes and DNxHR I just don't think it's worth it. Every scenario I tried it ended up simply too expensive and ultimately having an external recorder with SSD would be cheaper than internal ProRes/DNxHR with the fastest UHS-II cards.
Aside from that there are minor things I would like the GH5 to have:
- improved AF tracking - hopefully Olympus helped Panasonic with PDAF
- auto ISO in manual, min. shutter speed, etc. things that Panasonic is somehow still missing
- set focus A and focus B and do focus pull
- crop markings for other aspect-ratios
- REC709 preview in V-log L
Some other things I can't remember from the top of my head. The articles are much more detailed, if someone reads it and wants to discuss or even explain things I don't know or correct some things, I will appreciate.
I know it's a big post, so if I it's better to create a new topic just for it, just let me know and I delete this one or an admin do it or something.
Thanks!
-
Ok, thanks.
-
It is old article referenced here, btw.
Also old thing, it was leaked by Panasonic staff on Photokina before.
-
I am a donkey that they will tease with the carrot on a loooong stick for an entire year.
-
Talks had been long about it.
-
Did you guys see that message from Veydra on their facebook page?
"We had to cancel the project due to new anamorphic sensor area specs on the GH5."
veydra.png528 x 621 - 251K -
Panasonic interview
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15839/panasonic-interview-photokina-2016#Item_1
Quite pointless, but anyway.
-
More of the same
img2519.jpg772 x 558 - 46K
img2520.jpg758 x 578 - 53K
img2521.jpg657 x 602 - 54K -
And yet if they did take the same approach that JVC did with LS300's sensor size and active m4/3 mount - and offer that variable framing option - then you just crop in or out depending on your lens' coverage. 4k could be pixel to pixel at m4/3 image circle, and some sort of binning/averaging of more pixels when you extend out towards super 35mm. Cost between m4/3 sensor and super 35mm sensor is probably lower than ever - just a matter of having the space, cooling, LSI (if this even is sensor-size specific). Willing to bet that they would sell significantly more units by simply stuffing an over-sized sensor in there (super 35mm). Would be a pity if they didn't after JVC demonstrated just how easy it is. Leaked specs say "custom sensor"...
-
your right davedv that pretty much crushes my speculation
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- Topics List23,911
- Blog5,718
- General and News1,330
- Hacks and Patches1,148
- ↳ Top Settings33
- ↳ Beginners254
- ↳ Archives402
- ↳ Hacks News and Development56
- Cameras2,342
- ↳ Panasonic984
- ↳ Canon118
- ↳ Sony154
- ↳ Nikon95
- ↳ Pentax and Samsung70
- ↳ Olympus and Fujifilm98
- ↳ Compacts and Camcorders295
- ↳ Smartphones for video96
- ↳ Pro Video Cameras191
- ↳ BlackMagic and other raw cameras116
- Skill1,959
- ↳ Business and distribution66
- ↳ Preparation, scripts and legal38
- ↳ Art149
- ↳ Import, Convert, Exporting291
- ↳ Editors190
- ↳ Effects and stunts115
- ↳ Color grading197
- ↳ Sound and Music280
- ↳ Lighting96
- ↳ Software and storage tips266
- Gear5,407
- ↳ Filters, Adapters, Matte boxes344
- ↳ Lenses1,577
- ↳ Follow focus and gears93
- ↳ Sound496
- ↳ Lighting gear313
- ↳ Camera movement230
- ↳ Gimbals and copters302
- ↳ Rigs and related stuff271
- ↳ Power solutions83
- ↳ Monitors and viewfinders339
- ↳ Tripods and fluid heads139
- ↳ Storage286
- ↳ Computers and studio gear559
- ↳ VR and 3D248
- Showcase1,859
- Marketplace2,834
- Offtopic1,314
