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Will the BMPCC + Lumix 12-35 be an adequate kit?
  • theconformisttheconformist

    Pros and cons? My biggest fear is the lens itself seems to produce very "video-ish" quality, but I suspect under the right conditions (controlled environment, proper lighting) it may be able to achieve a more cinematic image... The lack of cine-lens features, and in fact the inclusion of "anti" cine features like focus by wire and electronic aperture are problematic but not deal breakers... I don't really mind that the lens isn't that fast - I don't care for very shallow DOF, though low-light shooting may be an issue... I just particularly like the fact that this lens would cover pretty much all the focal lengths useful on the BMPCC. What do you guys think?

  • 36 Replies sorted by
  • oscillianoscillian

    @theconformist Makes perfect sense :-)

  • theconformisttheconformist

    @oscillian yes it would have roughly the same focal length and aperture as that lens on the gh2

    I think you might be waiting a while on that adapter! The advantages of the Tokina are clear, but I plan on renting these cameras out and want to make things as simple as possible for people. Not having them fiddle with adapters, etc reduces risk and allows me to offer cheaper, all-in-one packages. For my personal use I may invest in adaptable lenses down the road, or begin investing in Canon mount glass and the Blackmagic 4K

  • oscillianoscillian

    This would look the same as a 17-50mm f4 on our GH2s, right? Sure, stabilization and compactness is great, but...

    I'll wait for the Nikon G-m43 LensTurbo instead and use it on the Tokina 16-50mm 2.8 (turns it into a 12-35mm 2.0) with true parfocalness, no aperture glitches and no excess sharpening. Spoke to RJ about the Nikon adapter and he would notify as soon as it's out :)

  • vicharrisvicharris

    @theconformist I never said it was "professional", I just like the Canon stuff more. I think the word "professional" means 1000 different things to 1000 different people. I'm sure it's a fine piece of glass but so far I really haven't seen too much shot of this I like but I rarely use Pany glass for anything. Just my preference. Who knows, maybe when I get my BMPCC I'll try this and love it. I guess it is the only alternative if one's looking for a stabilized zoom on MFT that's fast.

  • theconformisttheconformist

    @vicharris Granted, a lot of the footage posted from this lens looks very video-ish, but these clips... Not at all... Of course it doesn't look like it was shot on film, but I thought that conversation has long been over... I was under the impression we're trying to get a "professional" look these days, and these clips conclusively show such a look can be achieved with this lens.

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    I guess they are effectively using the 35mm end to get some shallow focus.

    This has more to do with aperture than focal length. You can get shallow focus and nice bokeh shooting 135 format film and a 35mm lens if you're at f/1.4 and likewise you can get shallow focus and nice bokeh shooting MFT on a 17.5mm lens when you're at T/0.95

  • vicharrisvicharris

    @tinyrobot Made my morning :)

  • tinyrobottinyrobot

    jimmykorea, why don't you just buy the damn lens so I don't have to keep seeing your petitions for proof. Buy it used and sell it if your negativity matches the performance.

  • vicharrisvicharris

    Ahh, I was wondering about that. The only footage that looks good and not extremely video like is the stuff done with the 50mm. Dammit! I really need a lens with OIS in this range. Guess I need to get better on my handheld :)

  • theconformisttheconformist

    On that one it says the lens whacking shots are done with a Canon 50mm

  • jimmykoreajimmykorea

    Nice again. I guess they are effectively using the 35mm end to get some shallow focus. I still wonder if some shots are another lens...Otherwise great.

  • theconformisttheconformist

    @jimmykorea Here's another by the same dude, with the 12-35. I agree it's hard to believe it's the 12-35, this is some of the best looking GH3 footage I've ever seen, period.

  • jimmykoreajimmykorea

    That clip is by far the best I have seen with the lens, so much better that I honestly question if it is indeed the 12-35mm. the first shots are nice, with an almost leica Bokeh. Not sold on one clip but still interested.

  • MordaeMordae

    Just sand the front element with super ultra fine sandpaper to get rid of the flare killing coating. Should get you the cine quality you're after ;) Id use 1800 grit.

    Seriously though, it is the coating thats probably keeping this lens from being 'cinematic'. The most realistic option would be asetone or something.

  • theconformisttheconformist

    @jimmykorea This was just posted in the 12-35mm thread. Gotta say, I'm sold.

  • jimmykoreajimmykorea

    Well I'm waiting it out till I see the kind of lens/ pocket cam footage that I'm looking for. I'm open to being proven wrong on the 12-35mm, just not that hopeful. hopefully we will soon see for ourselves...

  • RRRRRRRR

    dull and muddy looking? That´s vimeo for you.

  • theconformisttheconformist

    @jimmykorea I agree, but it's hard to say judging from that particular footage because it is essentially "home video" style. I expect the 12-35 is going to be a popular lens for this camera given the sensor size and given the odd focal length primes that one would get for it and wouldn't find very useful on other cameras. For instance, I would have a very hard time being able to justify having 5 different wide angle lenses for my GH3. On the BMPCC there would be a stark difference between them. As a rental, it would take a while to recoup that investment. So I'm just keeping my finger's crossed that the 12-35 is good enough.

  • jimmykoreajimmykorea

    but many including myself feel the pocket cam footage released suffered from the 12-35mm videoish look. No sharpening, but dull and muddy looking.

  • RRRRRRRR

    Don´t mistake sharpness and sharpening. It´s very different. While the 12-35 certainly is resolving a lot judging from stills, there is in-camera sharpening (gh2, gh3) which makes edges stand out, almost separated - judging from the videos shot with it. The look created is a bit similar to many camcorders and it cannot be mistaken for actual detail, f.i. from a 5k-2k downsampling which has all the detail but very even edges.

    Just downsample a still with 12-35 and you´ll see it looks remarkably different to a video frame grab of the same subject.

    Some cams will output 1080p which is very close to this. (highly detailed video with minimal artifacts)

    The thing with a cropped image circle is that you loose a lot of the feeling of a lens if it´s cropped too far (if the lens is designed for a much larger sensor). It will also magnify optical problems, like CA. Hence plenty of lenses will seem lacklustre or like bad performers on cameras with smaller sensors.

    The 12-35 however, is designed for a sensor that is not dramatically larger than s16. There is no sharpening in the bmdpcc afaik and so, there is a good chance the 12-35 will actually come to it´s own when shooting moving images on that cam.

  • jimmykoreajimmykorea

    Why bother with the speed booster, it will add price, weight and I personally think it has horrible Bokeh. But the main reason I wouldn't bother on the Pocket is there are a number of great compact, wide lenses, slr magic 12mm, lumix 20mm, lumix 14mm, olympus 12mm, zooms include 7-14, 9-18mm. My point is as you can't have stabilization anyway you may as well use the great native options.

    A pocket cam with a large adapter and a tokina 11-16 kind of defeats the purpose of the form factor.

  • Brian202020Brian202020

    @kurth

    The active part of the sensor is still centered.

  • kurthkurth

    ...that's interesting , but I wonder how that offset sensor on the bmpcc will affect that ?

  • Brian202020Brian202020

    @Trumpetman

    You just posted everything I was going to post except one thing. Every is talking about how the Speed Booster is a little soft on the edges. This will be less on the BMPCC since it is a smaller sensor, so the sharper center will be more prominent.

  • TrumpetmanTrumpetman

    I think the problem with the GH series is the in camera sharpening with the lack of dynamic range in combination with the sharp focus of the lumix lenses. I never use lumix lenses with my GH 3 or Gh 2. However, the pocket cam does not have in camera sharpening and of course it has 13 stops of DR, so I think the lumix lenses may very well work in this case. John Brawley's example looks pretty filmic to me. In addition Philip Bloom has just posted a test of the speedbooster with the Blackmagic cinema camera that looks pretty impressive as well, which will hopefully allow me to use my nikons with the pocket cam. Kholi was saying he doesn't like legacy lenses on the Blackmagic, however I'm hoping the added sharpening of the booster along with the other benefits will make the nikons a good match also.

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