Digital Bolex raw camera, no longer made

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Now - did Derventzis hire Rubinstein to drive a modern social media campaign or did Rubinstein hire Derventzis to develop the product? If its the first, we might still have a chance that there will finally be a DigitalBolex.

If you collect bits from interviews, it seems like first option only. As Stylianos did same thing few times already, one startup died, they changed office (sometimes it was same office) or building, move to new one under new name and story continued.

Big red warn sign is cite from interview considering one of his startups. They always wanted to do all by themselfs, and do something strange that other people did not get.

Alex

ok, so Joe Rubinstein and Elle Schneider are taking care about the "story" around Digitalbolex. Stylianos Derventzis is the boss of Ienso, the company that supposedly is developing the camera. You can find a few employees of Ienso on linkedin:

Rongbiao Ma
http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/rongbiao-ma/19/a54/55?trk=pub-pbmap
Kamran Sabeti, P.Eng.
http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/kamran-sabeti-p-eng/33/389/b86?trk=pub-pbmap
Stephen Liu
http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/stephen-liu/3/752/4?trk=pub-pbmap
Vitaly Makarov
http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/vitaly-makarov/b/96a/a06?trk=pub-pbmap

They all seem tobe quite experienced engineers but not so much in the field of digital imaging. Someone with an LinkedIN account could probably find more details about their staff.
I guess they are missing a guy like Dan Hudgins https://vimeo.com/user1753849 who knows something about de-mosaicing and CinemaDNG workflows.

Now - did Derventzis hire Rubinstein to drive a modern social media campaign or did Rubinstein hire Derventzis to develop the product? If its the first, we might still have a chance that there will finally be a DigitalBolex.

DrDave

Roughly 70 percent of all investors lose money in the stock market, but a scam is a scam. If this is a scam, it should be investigated. There is a difference, for example, in a business that is a real business, like solar or a restaurant, and they go under in a difficult market, versus a company that makes false promises.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Well, maybe he'll hit this time...

May be, but it does not look like it.

rockroadpix

Well, maybe he'll hit this time...

Vitaliy_Kiselev

So I think that Stelio was behind it from the beginning which makes all this talk about some of their manufacturing partners seem kind of silly(read false).

Elle in one of the videos posted here states that he is real boss, as far as I remember.

Yeah, I found that. He was also listed on a bunch of patent hits on Google. I didn't bother looking them up too much as it was a lot to wade through...

As I checked all of them are weird and old. Related to first unsucessfull startup. Each new startup appeared right after another died.

rockroadpix

@jpturbo Yeah, I found that. He was also listed on a bunch of patent hits on Google. I didn't bother looking them up too much as it was a lot to wade through...

jpbturbo

@rockroadpix

I think it's already been posted here but anyways,

Stylianos Derventzis happens to be the registrant listed on a whois search for digitalbolex.com and digitalcameradesign.com/ienso.com

He is the Stelio in the video at this update on the kickstarter project, http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joedp/the-digital-bolex-the-1st-affordable-digital-cinem/posts/190311

The date that he first registered digitalbolex.com is 03/21/2011 as seen in the whois results,

Domain: digitalbolex.com

Date Registered: 03/21/11 Date Modified: 03/06/12 Expiry Date: 03/21/13 DNS1: DNS.INTERNIC.CA DNS2: DNS2.INTERNIC.CA

Registrant

               ienso
               Stylianos Derventzis
               20 Mural Street, Unit 7                   
               Richmond Hill, on (CA)
               L4B 1K3

Administrative Contact

               ienso
               Stylianos Derventzis
               5 Shady Golfway APT 410                   
               North York, ON (CA)
               M3C 3A5
               steliod@hotmail.com
               4164290140

So I think that Stelio was behind it from the beginning which makes all this talk about some of their manufacturing partners seem kind of silly(read false).

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Check first pages, and also Elle interview in this topic.

It is head of Ienso startup - Stylianos Derventzis

rockroadpix

@Vitaliy_Kiselev : you mentioned a link or reference to the "real boss" earlier, I can't find it, do you have one?

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@halimecondor

Really, do not talk on child level here. Won't work. Go to any venture capital investor and check that is required to get even minor financing. And how tightly process is controlled afterwards.

Really, if these guys are not telling the truth, if they are not performing some sort of due-diligence that was promised, or failed to meet some written performance goals, sure try blowing the whistle to whoever will listen.

This guys constantly make very strage technically incorrect comments incompatible with any real serious project.

And again, real boss behind all this is completely silent. And as I said, he has quite a record.

halimecondor

@Vitaliy_Kiselev

"It is not gambling, it is investment and investment is not gambling."

Maybe I'm the only person in the room who ever lost money on the stock market.

Really, if these guys are not telling the truth, if they are not performing some sort of due-diligence that was promised, or failed to meet some written performance goals, sure try blowing the whistle to whoever will listen.

If they are just dumb, messy and disorganized, I don't know if there is a remedy.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

I'm not sure if contacting the authorities is the right way to go, at this point. All that it could do is prevent them from focussing upon what they're supposed to be focussed on - building or problem-solving...

It is exactly right way to go. Idea that some geniuses who failed to deliver product must be "focused and we must not intervene" is weird.

rockroadpix

I'm not sure if contacting the authorities is the right way to go, at this point. All that it could do is prevent them from focussing upon what they're supposed to be focussed on - building or problem-solving...

Of course, there's the other side which is to err on caution and try to get the legal wheels moving before the set up is shuttered...

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@halimecondor

I really suggest to drop the humour here with strange attempt to attach gambling.

It is not gambling, it is investment and investment is not gambling. Despite kickstarter and authors constantly wanting (contrary tot heir claims) to turn it into preorder shop. Looking at your response you have very little idea how startup investment is performed.

This guys can be sued for breaching contract.

halimecondor

@Vitaliy_Kiselev

All joking aside, I haven't looked over any of the language at kickstarter to see if anything resembles a contract, but I imagine they are taking the ebay approach, argueing that they are merely a venue. That argument works up to a point, many states and countries have prohibitions on gambling and online gambling sites have been successfully blocked. Business "investment" is an entirely different type of gambling though, a startup investment without some sort of contract or written agreement is going to be a little snakey to litigate.

I love the digital bolex idea, I love the idea of being able to shoot with 16mm glass for less than the price of an Ikonoskop. Lots of first-time camera constructors seem to have problems getting going and staying going.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

One member just sent me via PM, it is fun:

Those kind of comments bother Elle a lot I think. This is going to sound kinda weird, but I kinda like those guys and wouldn't mind having a skype call with them. Think about what the persistence and the dedication to their negative emotion means. It means that at some fundamental level our project is creating some kind of identity crises for them. Maybe they are owners of $50K cameras, maybe they work in a very corporate environment, I don't know, but at some level this project calls into question some fundamental belief structure for them. It's kinda like when a bully beats up a gay kid. The reason the bully does that often is because he is afraid the gay kid may awaken latent homosexual feelings in himself. If we were making a microwave would they be so vicious?

He is now wanting to have skype call with us. Guys, specially for ya, use PM here. And I specially like gay part :-)

And right after this

I'm sorry I don't have a release date for you. We are working on it and we are very conscious of everyones desire for footage and a firm release date. The next few weeks are going to be very exciting I promise

Really, call authorities, someone.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@goanna

No one calling them thieves. But for long time I stated that full check is required on the firms involved and actual work done.

Project above certain level must have special firm assigned that'll periodically make checks and collect and publish all expenses made. Right now Kickstarter is just a mess.

About your article. As you can see, they had quite sane backers. It is mostly not the case with DB. As it looks like some sect. No even early sample of comera for almost a year? Fine, but they could tell you some hipster stories. Cool.

goanna

[one company that] put in place those designs and specs that their customers wanted.

As one hooker said to ABC's Chaser interviewer re the Government's anti-AIDS campaign,

"Brochures!, man, THAT's what we need, Brochures!"

goanna

Kickstarter startups aren't necessarily all thieves. This article shows how one creative but inexperienced dreamer got sued for a dream he just couldn't make come true.

When Kickstarter Investors Want Their Money Back

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/when-kickstarter-investors-want-their-money-back.html

Does this ring any bells?

rockroadpix

@IndySkint - like I said, "I hope I'm wrong".

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@IndySkint

Some of the Digital Bolex bashing here is a little excessive i must say. There are some valid points and fears though

Read this topic from the start, as right now I see same advertisment sugar we already saw.

No one here talked about "aspects of D16 they don't like".

We are talking here that this two guys are just coverage for real boss. And yes, "the team" with absolutely unprofessional and incorrect statemens.

My good advice, rather than talk to Joe, go and contact authorities.

IndySkint

Some of the Digital Bolex bashing here is a little excessive i must say. There are some valid points and fears though.

Well I'm a camera backer of the D16, why? - Because it's the camera I was looking for. I came from working with film, Super 16mm, and to be honest, DSLR's, while handy and good at certain things, just don't cut it. Codecs man, they suck. Raw is the future, and I want to be part of that future.

I can see why people don't like certain aspects of the D16, but most of the dissent and vitriol seems to be aimed at the creators and the team behind the D16. That's an easy thing to do due to the relative anonymity of the net. I say give 'em a chance, let them prove themselves.

Being a backer of this camera may be seen as taking a risk, but so what? Risks should be taken, I took a calculated one and Joe even contacted me to talk about every detail of my concerns, which allayed my fears. Without risk, this world would be a very boring place. Filmmaking is risk taking, we risk all sorts of things each and every day, without risk, no art or decent film would even exist.

The team behind the D16 have also done what no other camera company has done - listened, and actually put in place those designs and specs that their customers wanted. That needs to be applauded.

But, as the saying goes - The proof is in the pudding, and I look forward to cooking up some tasty Raw D16 footage for the dissenters to munch over.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

I cannot imagine this is a scam, because they raised $262,661 (not really a lot in the world of cons). If it were, they would have blown through that amount by now. It appears that they came up with a good idea. I liked it... at first. They seem to have no plan for real R&D/Manufacture, only marketing ideas.

Issue here is it is not they who came with this idea. Check first pages for a guy who stand behind it all, in their interviews they clearly stated it. He seems like professional money finder for startups of different kind, as I understand all of them never produced anything real. And developing and developing is much better idea than to just get money and run.

And timing tells more like from some source they could get info about coming BM camera. As they lauched in inappropriate place, had nothing but strangely avoided NAB announcments. Had been supported by all internet media personas who had nothing but few words by email.

rockroadpix

I cannot imagine this is a scam, because they raised $262,661 (not really a lot in the world of cons). If it were, they would have blown through that amount by now. It appears that they came up with a good idea. I liked it... at first. They seem to have no plan for real R&D/Manufacture, only marketing ideas.

Of course, Elle got to be on some panels when she was not really qualified to be on them. So, there is that. I guess someone paid for the airfare.

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