@shian ok. Currently shooting Apoc Now Boom with settings at Smooth all -2 (saturation -1). So would that be considered flat? Also what is benefit of shooting flat? Thanks. Right on re RED cam idea

@artiswar Thanks

@shian +1 on Canon comment. People just trust the name. Glad I found the GH2 and personal-view.com. it's all good - we'll just keep rocking the house

@shian What is shooting flat? What is benefit? Thanks

@ shian so do you use Intravenus on a regular basis now? Have you experienced any problems with wider shots with it?

"The reasons for shooting flat are separate."

@balazer If/when you have the time, it would be greatly appreciated if you could elaborate.

Thanks in advance.

Tommyboy, I use Vegas 10... What I write here is for luminance levels. The story is pretty much the same for chrominance levels.

With 8 bits you can have 256 different combinations. We use 8 bits to represent the integers 0-255. 8-bit video levels means black is 16, white is 235, and everything in between is a shade of grey. To keep things simple, values below 16 and above 235 are invalid. 8-bit full range means black is zero and white is 255.

When you set your Vegas project to 8-bit, the 8-bit values decoded from your input format are used as-is, with no expansion or contraction of the ranges, and then converted to 8-bit RGB for working, and converted back to your output format upon rendering with no expansion or contraction of the ranges. So when your Vegas project is set to 8-bit, if your input format is video levels (like the GH2's files are), then you are working in video levels. If your input format is full range, then you're working in full range. Output formats like MP4 and MTS are supposed to be video levels also.

In 32-bit mode, the full range is still 0-255 as far as I know, but now you are working with decimals instead of integers. You can have values with more precision, like 20.235453. When you choose 32-bit video levels, the input is decoded and converted to RGB with no expansion or contraction of the ranges. It's essentially the same as choosing 8-bit, except you are working with more precision internally. When you choose 32-bit full range, the input is expanded out to the full range when read, and compressed down to video range when rendered: black at 16 in your input becomes 0 in the working space, and is converted back to 16 upon rendering.

Practically speaking in Vegas, you have a few different ways of working. If your PC is fast, set the project to 32-bit full range and a gamma of 1.0. Video previews in the Vegas window and on an external computer monitor will show the correct levels. If your PC is not so fast, do your work in 8-bit mode and render in 32-bit mode. Choosing 32-bit video levels will make all of Vegas's filters behave exactly the same as they would in 8-bit mode, except of course that they work with more precision. If you prefer to work in full range, when set to 8-bit mode you'll need to put a Levels filter with the Studio RGB to Computer RGB preset at the beginning of every filter chain and another Levels filter with the Computer RGB to Studio RGB preset at the end of every filter chain, and then disable those filters when you switch to 32-bit full range mode. It's a bit complicated, and I don't suggest working that way.

Vegas will only display the levels correctly if you have everything set correctly. When the project is set to 8-bit and your input format is using video levels, full-screen previews on a computer monitor will only be correct if you check the "Use Studio RGB" box in the Preview Device Preferences. Video previews in the Vegas window will only be correct if you add a Levels filter with the Studio RGB to Computer RGB preset at the end of the filter chain. Disable the filter when rendering in 8-bit mode. The same rules apply when the project is set to 32-bit video levels and your input uses video levels. If you set the project to 32-bit full range, previews will show the levels correctly with no need to add a Levels filter or check the "Use Studio RGB" box.

There's more info here: http://www.glennchan.info/articles/vegas/v8color/vegas-9-levels.htm

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shian, it makes no sense to say that working in 32-bit floating point is a reason to shoot flat. You probably wouldn't want to shoot flat if you couldn't work in 32 bits. But having the ability to work in 32 bits doesn't mean you should shoot flat. The reasons for shooting flat are separate.

Without getting too technical: it just means you have more colors available to try and accurately display the image. Those of us who remember the early days of designing pages for the internet (14.4k modems) and often being confined to displaying gifs with 256 colors vs today with PNGs containing millions of colors. It's not too dissimilar to that. this wiki page helps demonstrate that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth But what working in floating point (32bit) color gives you is basically the ability to sort of paint over the top of the given image, and fill-in the blanks. It's a fake way of adding more color information to your images. It doesn't really add anything, but it prevents the image from breaking down the way it would in 8 bit. You are essentially airbrushing fine detail onto a course image.

Which is why you shoot flat. Take the burden off the internal engine of the camera and place it on the massive processing power of your PC, and a 32bit color engine. Everything I've done in ColorGHear is based on this.

Don't listen to Philip Bloom if you ever expect to surpass him.

@FilmingArt the macro blocking on vimeo is from vimeo compression - the ProRes versions of all my videos are pristine.

A finishing question for AE (or other tools that allow this choice): For hacked GH2 sources (GOP3), would a 16pbc project offer less real grading room than a 32bpc project? 16bpc of course renders faster. I would not ask that question if the source was 10/12bit depth. I find I'm fighting banding (my expectations are rather high though) at every step in the filter stack, and it's a balancing act. I suspect that's all an 8bit source can give me, not that integer 16bpc induces artifacting.

To get more specific of the level of detail I'm talking (and maybe share a tip), after I'm done with grading/finishing at 16bpc with no visible artifacts, if I render out a master to an intermediate 10b YUV format (ProResHQ/DNxHD) I will get this (subtle) banding/artifacting. Not so if the master is rendered out to 10b Uncompressed RGB. I could share stills if need be.

yes. you can work in 8 and 16 if your system chokes on 32, but always render in 32 to a 444 codec.

For starters, if you insist on finishing in FCP, change your sequence settings to this:

Or graduate to a professional workflow which I have outlined here:

and discuss further here: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/55553#Comment_55553

found roughly what i was looking for in here: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/737/gh2-hack-myths-and-realities

sorry to go off topic.