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8bit color nonsense
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  • shianshian

    @hay you are better off starting a new thread with that question. It's not exactly on topic, and I'm out of my depth with how the patches work. That's driftwood. lpowell and cbrandin domain.

  • hayhay

    @shian

    very nice. im with you, but can someone please provide a technical explanation as to why patches yield these results? i dont understand why a higher bit rate, etc, yields a grainy result? if there is another thread that discusses the technical merits along these lines, please provide a pointer.

  • shianshian

    @hay everything below was stock GH2 - but I'll never go back to stock. I love the grain, the softness, and color depth of Intravenus. It's almost like shooting Kodachrome again, but with motion.

  • stoneystoney

    @lpowell Interesting. So it's not a bug after all.

  • Nino_IlacquaNino_Ilacqua

    The point which started this discussion was not if it is better to edit in 32bit or 8bit (which is quite obvious). The question which @filmingart posed was if it is always better to shoot as mach flat as possible.

  • EYESOULEYESOUL

    @artiswar I totally agree..I have seen the grading improvements in 32bit,no question about it!

  • LPowellLPowell

    @stonebat

    In theory editing 8bit codec clip in 8bit mode should have no issue.

    Actually, that's not what theory would predict. In order to avoid information loss, any mathematical scaling operation you perform on 8-bit source data will require more than 8 bits of precision. And if you want to render an intermediate result in 10-bit precision, you need to calculate those results with more than 10 bits of data. Failing to do so will cause digital round-off errors to accumulate in the least significant bits of your 10-bit calculation. That's why the best insurance is to work at the highest precision your NLE supports.

  • hayhay

    @ shian

    yes, nice work dispelling the myths re: importance of grading with greater bit depth.

    what is your experience grading hacked vs unhacked gh2 footage at 32bit float? ive done a bit of this in cs5, using the following:

    • patches of choice: v9b 176mbps or flowmotion 100mbps

    • using nikon, canon and zeiss glass via fotodiox, usually at around f 5.6

    • always 800 iso or below

    • 24p at shutter setting of 1/40th

    please comment on the following (also open to feedback from others who have an informed technical opinion, like mr. powell):

    • what has been your experience grading in a 32 bit environ, both using stock firmware as well as various patches?

    • to me, stock firmware footage always looks cleaner in terms of noise than hacked output. has this been your experience? if so, what would the benefit be of using a patch if one wanted the cleanest result from a 32 bit grade?

    • i really like the film-like (reminds me enlarging portra 400) grain than the patches i use seem to add. do you have any idea as to why perceived graininess would be increased with a high bit rate patch?

    • is there a technical explanation for this anywhere on this site?

    many thx

  • artiswarartiswar

    @matt_gh2 and @stonebat - Try applying an extreme grade in AE with the project set to 8 bit. Look at the banding. Switch it to 32 bit and all is revealed!

    +1 @shian - Knockin' kooks one by one.

  • shianshian

    @driftwood that quote is getting pasted right to the top of the ColorGHear testimonials page!

    And it's not the editing that matters in 32bit, unless you are also grading in your NLE. Grading in 32 bit makes all the difference in the world.

  • stoneystoney

    In theory editing 8bit codec clip in 8bit mode should have no issue. But in practice 32bit mode yields better result. Programming bugs? Features? I don't know why it is the way it is, but I thank @shian for sharing the pragmatic tip.

  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    So if I understand correctly, working in 32 bit environment allows for finer and more controlled gradations of change/adjustment to both image and color? (therefore not destroying/ruining the image when we apply color correction and grading?)

    Thanks all for regular contributions of your knowledge - much appreciated here.

  • driftwooddriftwood

    @shian 's detailed analysis of 'working the GH2's 8bit' is unrivalled. A lot of people could learn a lot (as I have done) by looking at his findings.

  • vicharrisvicharris

    or +2,987,576!

  • vicharrisvicharris

    +1!

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