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24p versus HBR
  • kurt111111kurt111111

    Pros and cons, Which one do you prefer and why? I'm using cluster 6 right now.

  • 31 Replies sorted by
  • balazerbalazer

    Better than what? Cake is good for HBR 30p.

  • MrgatopardoMrgatopardo

    Is there a "better" hack to shoot at 30fps?

  • balazerbalazer

    manstok, I think there is something wrong with the way you have processed that HBR footage to generate the still image. It appears that you have just a single field of interlaced video, doubled. The GH2's 24p is sharper than HBR mode, but not by that much.

    Of course the GH2's HBR mode uses interlaced encoding of progressive frames. To properly interpret the video, the fields should be weaved back into frames. Some software is too smart, and tries to de-interlace the video.

  • nomadnomad

    If you need 25 fps at max quality, it might be the rare case where an external recorder like the Ninja 2 is better than all the settings for the hack.

  • MRfannyMRfanny

    I did a similar test a couple days ago pre shoot. HBR does show more aliasing on edges. 24 and FSH does not so I chose to shoot in FSH for my 25fps needs. Using AN Nebular v7 sharp2

  • oscillianoscillian

    @manstok BIG difference!

  • manstokmanstok

    I just got a second hand gh2 and started experimenting (bkmcwd Valkyrie 444 TYPE-ZERO2_Candidate1.5b) I switched between 24p and HBR. the result seems quite obvious (watch hand), more aliasing on the HBR mode..

    HBR.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 791K
    24p.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 910K
  • driftwooddriftwood

    24p or 80% Slow Mo (but its without Sound) REC modes comparably offer more than HBR. HBR 25/30 and 720p modes don't stand up to the picture quality of 24p due to the nature of picture resolution, memory resources and the way the GH2s encoder is setup to maintain hi quality 50/60 fps. HBR (Hi Bitrate Recording) is just a hack by Pany to yield a half decent looking 25p/30p picture from a encoding/decoding implementation that is 2-3 years old. Yet you can get achieve nice results if you work to its limitations.

  • kurt111111kurt111111

    Thanks, SH mode. Got it!

  • mpgxsvcdmpgxsvcd

    @kurt111111

    Put it in SH mode.

  • mpgxsvcdmpgxsvcd

    The end of the video below has a slow motion 30p clip and then a 60p slow motion clip. The 30p clip is ok but I like the look of 1/120th shutter with 60p for slow motion much better.

    Also, you should note that a lot of Fluorescent lighting will prevent you from using faster than 1/120th shutter speed. You get the same strobing affect because of the rolling shutter that you do if you try to use a flash with a rolling electronic shutter. This is the reason that the flash is disabled on the new G5 when you use the electronic shutter mode.

  • DouglasHornDouglasHorn

    @mpgxsvcd - Agreed. You'll probably get the best results when you shoot with your intended end result in mind. In the case of my project, there will be a lot of motion and the final will be rendered at 30P. I may also shoot some shots in 720 60P so I can slow them down and show the motion better.

  • DouglasHornDouglasHorn

    @LPowell - Thanks. I currently have Flow Motion v2 on my cameras, so I'll test and probably stick with that.

  • nomadnomad

    @kurt111111

    Switch to NTSC and use 720p60.

  • GabelGabel

    @whynot: Yes, recording regular 25p out from the GH2 to the Ninja is no problem at all.

  • stoneystoney

    Besides image quality, 24p and 30p have different look and feel. I wouldn't call one is better than the other. It's like saying red is better than blue.

  • kurt111111kurt111111

    @mpgxsvcd thanks that was the answer I was looking for. BTW how do I shoot 60p on the gh2?

  • mpgxsvcdmpgxsvcd

    I love when people make generic sweeping statements that 24p has better picture quality than 30p. You can achieve almost the same bit rates with either one and you will be hard pressed to show a difference in compression in all but the most strenuous situations.

    I wouldn't use 24p or 30p for motion. 60p works much better for that.

    Really it comes down to whether your final product will be rendered in 24p, 30p, or 60p. If you are rendering to 24p then you can shoot 24p and use it natively, shoot 30p and slow it down to 80%, or shoot 60p and slow it down to 40%.

    If you are rendering to 30p or higher then there really isn't a great reason to shoot in 24p.

    If you render to 25p then the HBR and 720p @ 50 FPS mode(Slowed down to 50%) will work well.

    Trying to mix frame rates without doing slow motion is much more detrimental than compression could ever be.

  • nomadnomad

    So, open a new one ;-)

    I'll compare it later today or tomorrow and post a differential.

  • whynotwhynot

    Thanks Nomad, very interesting, Do you know how the ProRes file of HBR 25P from a ninja stands up against something like flowmotion 2. I need to do long takes so have been using settings that can span? I'll stop now as I'm probably getting off topic

  • LPowellLPowell

    @DouglasHorn In my view, 80% Slow-motion conformed to 30p showcases Flow Motion v2 at its best.

  • DouglasHornDouglasHorn

    I haven't tried HBR yet, but from some of the patch-specific threads it looked like it was lower quality than 24H. I have a project that needs to shoot 30P that's coming up in a week. I thought perhaps I'd use 24H at 80% and record audio separately. But with HBR I could record right into the camera, right?

    For a 30P project, how significant is the quality issue between 24H @ 80% and HBR? Any patch recommendations for shooting 30P?

    Thanks!

  • nomadnomad

    The HDMI has a strange pulldown sequence in 24p, but the output is clean in 25p (sending PsF), so you can record to a Ninja or the like and tell your NLE it's progressive. Keep in mind that you still need to record in parallel to a SD card, or the output looks terrible.

  • whynotwhynot

    Gabel. re: However, sometimes you need to shoot in 25p (especially in Europe) and the good thing then is that the GH2 sends a proper signal for ProRes recording, which is better when recorded externally.

    This interests me! Are you saying one can record 25p via external recorder ? Using HDMI. I thought the HDMI was hamstrung on the GH2 for Progressive?

  • kurt111111kurt111111

    So maybe use 30p whenever you're shooting something with a lot of motion in it and 24p for the rest?

    Can 24p and 30p footage be easily combined into one file in say premiere pro?

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