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AN "Valkyrie", GOLGOP3-13, GOP3ZILLA, natural, Freeze-less Reliable All-round GOP3 Settings :-)
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  • Actually, this was a static chart, and then I started the animation, and the drop occured at the same moment precisely... So, fortunately, this is not the Fallback mode... Anyways, thanks so much for your response!

  • @kovtun66 No, it is the fallback mode. One of the reasons to do a static chart test is to check if this behaviour occurs. The fact that it happens at the same moment kind of proves it. Basically the camera cannot continue to encode at the level it currently is, and so it falls back to a lower level (compresses a lot more). Its actually less likely to happen in a real world shoot unless there is a lot of detail in the shot. The correct result from a chart test should be a continuous constant pattern of I-Frame and B-frame sizes with very little variation.

  • @bkmcwd

    Honestly I don't have to try the latest settting. All in all I know it won't work as I've also tried to reduce P-Frame size with GOP-Tables. I am pretty sure the key for good HBR in 3GOP is the P-Frame scaling table... this is why I use the B-Frame scaling table for P-Frames in my latest 3GOP setting ( http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/63552#Comment_63552 ) and why I've posted promising HBR/25p settings for your patches above ( http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/63549#Comment_63549 ) . I would love to know how to design a Matrix (Scaling Tables) but I do not ... with the B-Frame scaling on P-Frames my settings are certainly not perfect yet, but it's getting closer to what I think should be a good HBR setting (fine grain, sharp static scenes, smooth motion ... well, we all want exactly that, I assume).

    Don't get me wrong!!! I love your settings for 24H and I admire your really great work on these brilliant patches. However I feel there is much more room for improvement for HBR/FSH modes. For instance Sanity V3 or my latest modfied version of Sanity -> http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/63801#Comment_63801 (or especially 24p25-NINE: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/45642#Comment_45642 ) show what can be done with HBR. Unfortunately these patches are long GOP and motion may look a bit harsh under certain circumstances (especially in bright, contrasty daylight scenes)... however for static scenes / tableau style work they look extremely good. My target is to match this IQ but with smoother motion ... but as I don't know much about encoder settings it's hard for me to get there (and a lot of detective work....).

    Best Regards!

  • @Stray: thanks a lot for explanation. My mistake was, I thought it's just VBR approach in action. The recorded frames of the moving chart obviously had some motion blur, so I thought it's natural that less bitrate is needed to encode those frames...

  • Testing the GOP3ZILLA standard V2 BETA4. Different file sizes encoded with the best so far (IMHO) software "MainConsept Reference Encoder" from the original file (about variable 85Mbps and 900 MB). Shutter speed 100, variable ND filter. No color correction. Lenses used, Lumix 14-45mm, Canon FD 50mm f/1.4, Olympus 40-140mm f/4-5.6. Just press the "Download" button.

    1280x720 24p @ 6Mbps (45ΜΒ) https://www.dropbox.com/s/ebm2hs3nb7j5nsw/GH2__Paraliakos%20720_24p_6Mbps.mp4

    1280x720 24p @ 20Mbps (140MB) https://www.dropbox.com/s/zwpi4uzb1gbqbg5/GH2__Paraliakos%20720_24p_20Mbps.mp4

    Full HD 1920x1080 24p @ 42Mbps (337MB) https://www.dropbox.com/s/azf27lfwmbtq7qt/GH2__Paraliakos%201080%2024p%2042Mbps.mp4

  • @subco, wait until the results of the "Revenge of the Great Camera Shootout" revealed. You will be convinced for sure, and buy three GH2s not just one. In my case I have tried many video cameras with cost up to 6000 euros and GH2 outperforms all of them. Annoying not to have some inputs-outputs of other "pro" cameras but you get used to it! Thanks to this forum and Vitaliy, made my mind and bought the GH2, never will regret that.

  • @towi

    I understand well about the target which you aim at. It is because it is the same target as me. I am also going to inquire further. We are aiming for the same goal. Good luck to us. :-)

    @kovtun66

    I am improving your set. I am going to shoot in the forest after it. :-)

    @sakattaq76

    Thanks for testing my setting! :-) Looks really good.

  • GOP3ZILLA_standard_V2_BETA4 HBR(30p) Motion Test

    This is the experimental setting in HBR and FSH. The experimental setting of SH(60p) is also included.

    bkmcwd GOP3ZILLA_standard_V2_BETA4.zip
    841B
    GOP3ZILLA_ST2_BETA4_HBR_ISO160_forest_sp_qp.JPG
    1296 x 631 - 192K
    GOP3ZILLA_ST2_BETA4_HBR_ISO160_day2_sp_qp.JPG
    1297 x 631 - 191K
  • I release "GOP3ZILLA-MAX_Standard_V2_BETA1&2" settings. These are the experimental settings. In BETA2, the experimental "Debloking tables" are also included. These two are all the same except Debloking tables.

    *About PAL mode, it is not tested enough yet.

    Since my main PC has crashed now, the works do not progress. :-(

    Although the setting which combined Sedna with natural is also made to the middle, the satisfying result has not been obtained yet...

    Please download the raw data from vimeo site. :-)

    bkmcwd GOP3ZILLA-MAX_standard_V2_BETA1.zip
    853B
    bkmcwd GOP3ZILLA-MAX_standard_V2_BETA2.zip
    918B
    GOP3ZILLA_MAX_ST_V2B2_24p_ISO160_forest_sp_qp.JPG
    1297 x 633 - 173K
    GOP3ZILLA_MAX_ST_V2B2_60i_ISO160_forest_sp_qp.JPG
    1295 x 632 - 176K
    GOP3ZILLA_MAX_ST_V2B2_HBR30p_ISO160_forest_sp_qp.JPG
    1297 x 633 - 182K
  • @bkmcwd: To answer your question from the FM2.0 thread: The GOLGOP3 version I was referring to when writing that it had never failed me in 720p60 mode was GOLGOP3-13_V4.3_BETA3 - which used GOP 9 for 720p.

    Right now I am doing some experiments, trying to amalgamate FM2.0 for 24H/L, GOLGOP3-13_standard for 720p60, and Canis Majoris for HBR... I am not quite sure this will work, though... ;-)

  • @bkmcwd: since you're one of the Masters of the GH2 world, I think I will ask you: is there any documentation on what each number in the GOP Table means? I see six numbers in every GOP Table and have no idea what each of them means. You explained about one of them some time ago, but what about the rest of? Thank you in advance sir.

  • In the Flow Motion 2.0 thread I just posted an amalgamation of FM 2.0 with the 720p60 settings from GOLGOP3-13_standard, which solves the "involuntary stopping" issue for me: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/65357#Comment_65357

    I should also mention that I first tried to blend in another setting, Canis Majoris, to have at least one GOP1 setting in as an alternative, used with HBR (sacrificing all 25p/50p usuability). It worked, but the GOP1 recording was just too unstable, and it not only stopped at times, it froze the camera - and power cycling between shots is not an option for me when under water.

  • @karl

    Thanks for your feedbacks! :-) About 720p60, I am just going to consider which is the more nearly better between 6GOP or 9GOP. I refer also to the setting which you combined. BTW, how about 24p of GOP3ZILLA-MAX_Standard_V2_BETA1 or BETA2?

    @kovtun66

    "is there any documentation on what each number in the GOP Table means?"

    I do not know about formal explanation, either. However, I understand the near meaning. Although this is my imagination to the last, I think that each parameter has determined the distribution ratio of the resource to various frames. Although I think that the P frame-oriented parameter is satisfactory at "0" in 24p of 3GOP, I also consider the parameter for the P frames by necessity in FSH and HBR of 3GOP. Although it will be fall back mode with the settings originally set to Q13 or Q15 under high stress, I discovered that the frame buffer was controllable by changing this GOP tables. This is judgment by my experience and I do not understand about the exact meaning, either.

  • Since my main PC has crashed now, the tests in PAL of GOP3ZILLA-MAX_Standard_BETA1 and 2 are not made. :-(

    It may somewhat be too aggressive.

    In that case, please change some GOP tables as follows.

    1080i50 GOP Table=1, 6, 6, 1, 14, 14

  • Since my PC revived, I tested also about PAL several times with latest GOP3ZILLA-MAX_BETAs. The results were not bad when "1080i50 GOP Table" was changed as mentioned above. "720p50" is also good. BETA3 is due to be released soon. :-)

  • @ Silent users of my settings :-)

    UPDATE(2012/06/01): I release new "GOP3ZILLA-MAX_Standard_V2_BETA5" setting.http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/66232#Comment_66232

    I release new "GOP3ZILLA-MAX_Standard_V2_BETA3" setting.

    I think that recording will stop shortly after not making especially 720/60p moderate so far. Since the I frame became quite small with 6GOP in 720/60p, I returned to 9GOP.

    The stability of FSH, HBR, and SH were improved in this BETA3.

    *Deblocking tables are substituted by your liking.

    Although the performance under lowlight is not different from a normal version, the image quality in the scene which requires high stress improves in this MAX version. However, with MAX version, playback in camera may not often be available in 24p. This is because the maximum frame size which can be played back by GH2 may be exceeded. Of course, the file which cannot be played back in camera can also be satisfactorily played in PC. Supposing you consider that the playback in a camera is important, I will not recommend you this setting. Please use normal version.

    Please try it!

    *Of course, already combined with excellent audio tune @thepalalias's "Pasadena_Pulse_Audio_V2_Beta2"

    NOTE:

    *Although bit rate setups are quite high, the bit rate which actually appears are lower than these. Since the actual bit rate changes by the object to shoot, please confirm by yourself.

    *24H and 24L are high quality 3GOP setting with super mega size I-frames.

    *24p80%(30p) is available in 24H and 24L both.

    *In PAL Mode, I especially recommend you use with SanDisk 95MB/s 64GB SDXC card strongly.

    *In camera playback is sometimes not available in 24p. In other mode, Sometimes available after reboot the camera.(Not tested full yet, but probably)

    *EX Tele works.(Not tested yet, but probably)

    *Spanning in 24H, 24L with SanDisk 95MB/s 64GB SDXC Card. In other mode, need test.

    *Spanning in other cards needs to be tested.

    bkmcwd GOP3ZILLA-MAX_standard_V2_BETA3.zip
    927B
    GOP3ZILLA_MAX_ST_V2B3_24p_ISO160_forest_sp_qp.JPG
    1298 x 634 - 180K
    GOP3ZILLA_MAX_ST_V2B3_HBR25p_ISO400_forest_sp_qp.JPG
    1297 x 633 - 180K
    GOP3ZILLA_MAX_ST_V2B3_HBR30p_ISO160_forest_sp_qp.JPG
    1297 x 632 - 180K
    GOP3ZILLA_MAX_ST_V2B3_50p_ISO160_forest_sp_qp.JPG
    1298 x 633 - 181K
    GOP3ZILLA_MAX_ST_V2B3_60p_ISO160_forest_sp_qp.JPG
    1295 x 633 - 181K
  • This setting is not good. The improved version has been released.

    bkmcwd GOP3ZILLA-MAX_standard_V2_BETA4.zip
    922B
  • @ Silent users of my settings again :-)

    I release new "GOP3ZILLA-MAX_Standard_V2_BETA5" setting.

    *The difference from BETA3 is only 720/60p.

    *The BETA4 is not good.

    I think that recording will stop shortly after not making especially 720/60p moderate so far. Since the I frame became quite small with 6GOP in 720/60p, I returned to 9GOP.

    Stability (don't stop during recording) is thought as important especially in my settings.

    The stability of FSH, HBR, and SH were improved in this BETA5. And, in this setting, bitrate is slightly improved from BETA3.

    *Deblocking tables are substituted by your liking.

    Although the performance under lowlight is not different from a normal version, the image quality in the scene which requires high stress improves in this MAX version. However, with MAX version, playback in camera may not often be available in 24p. This is because the maximum frame size which can be played back by GH2 may be exceeded. Of course, the file which cannot be played back in camera can also be satisfactorily played in PC. Supposing you consider that the playback in a camera is important, I will not recommend you this setting. Please use normal version. However, IQ of MAX version is better than normal versions, IMO.

    Please try it!

    *Of course, already combined with excellent audio tune @thepalalias's "Pasadena_Pulse_Audio_V2_Beta2"

    NOTE:

    *Although bit rate setups are quite high, the bit rate which actually appears are lower than these. Since the actual bit rate changes by the object to shoot, please confirm by yourself.

    *24H and 24L are high quality 3GOP setting with super mega size I-frames.

    *24p80%(30p) is available in 24H and 24L both.

    *In PAL Mode, I especially recommend you use with SanDisk 95MB/s 64GB SDXC card strongly.

    *In camera playback is sometimes not available in 24p. In other mode, Sometimes available after reboot the camera.(Not tested full yet, but probably)

    *EX Tele works.(Not tested yet, but probably)

    *Spanning in 24H, 24L with SanDisk 95MB/s 64GB SDXC Card. In other mode, need test.

    *Spanning in other cards needs to be tested.

    Please download original raw data from vimeo and check actual IQ.

    StreamParser results are here:http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/66026#Comment_66026

    bkmcwd GOP3ZILLA-MAX_standard_V2_BETA5.zip
    936B
    GOP3ZILLA_MAX_ST_V2B5_60p_ISO400_forest_sp_qp.JPG
    1297 x 634 - 183K
  • @bkmcwd Downloaded the 24p Vimeo sample...WOW! Nice ....One question...that is some nice steady cam work....what equip do you have for your steadycam? ..really smooth..I like!

  • @safari Thanks! :-)

    I am always using DIY SteadiCam currently displayed on my profile.

  • @ Silent users of my settings :-)

    I have slightly improved BETA5 only in 60p and release "GOP3ZILLA-MAX_standard_V2_BETA6" setting.

    Most characters of this BETA6 setting are the same as BETA5. Only 60p is improved so that the bit rate may become high a little.

    I think this setting is very stable in all mode.

    bkmcwd GOP3ZILLA-MAX_standard_V2_BETA6.zip
    921B
  • I installed GOP3ZILLA-MAX_Standard_V2_BETA5 right after I had tried FlowMotion 2.01 (which still has a 720p60 stopping issue for me).

    Using this opportunity, I did some IQ comparison shots, I just posted them in the FlowMotion 2 thread.

    Regarding beta6: Are you sure that a higher bitrate for 720p60 is worth the risk to have the same problem that FM 2.01 still has? I mean: Can you actually see a better IQ for 720p60 in beta6 than in beta5?

  • @karl Have you had a chance to confirm that the problem you reported occurs only when shooting 720p SH mode with Flow Motion v2.01 in auto-exposure Still-Frame P-mode? In my testing, I haven't been able to provoke recording failures in any Creative Movie video modes.

  • @LPowell: Not yet. The next chance may be some time away (has to be noon again, sun & wind present...), can you already recommend a more specific setting (as in: exposure mode A, S, or M)?

  • @karl Yes, my tests of shooting video in automated Still-Frame modes worked reliabliy without failing in FH and H modes, where Flow Motion v2.01 is limited to peak bitrates of 60Mbps. FSH mode also seemed to work reliably as well, it appears the problem only occurs in 720p SH mode.

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