@qwerty123 saying something is ugly and telling someone they can't tell the difference, or they shouldn't do something, are two separate things. I never said don't do it, I said it's ugly. If people want to do that, have fun.

Again, too each their own, but asking for it is valid. To a lot of us it's important.

And I already said, a number of times, specialty shots (action, etc) of course. Two or three times now.

@balazer

I guess somewhere in one of my posts I said that 180 degree is the only shutter angle available. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that. If you show me where I said that, I'll go back and readjust my post.

What I meant to say was: 180 degree shutters @ 24P in my working reality (where I make my living) is very, very important. It is one step--small as it may be to some, in capturing a cinematic image that people are paying for, and that most of us prefer.

There are people who cannot tell the difference between 30P and 24P, that is fine.

The only reason this thread is actually even still relevant to me is because you told me that I cannot see a difference.

Again, use whatever you want. I have no issues with the way I've been working for years, I don't like the look of 30P for anything other than commercials or documentaries, I don't like shooting higher than a 180 Degree shutter for standard cinematic image acquisition, where standard is defined as the average scene that does not involve action or a special need for a tighter shutter angle.. I would rather shoot 1/45 (Canon) or 1/40 (GH2), that means my eyes see something different than yours? Well...

I think that's okay.

Let me know if that still doesn't make sense.

@balazer

Most people can't tell the difference between a Gibson and an Ibanez, either. Does that make it any less valid for the artist who CHOOSES to make a purchase based on experience or piece of mind? No, it doesn't.

This isn't a debate on if most people can tell. It isn't even a debate to begin with. You're attempting to convince me that 180 degrees is what? Bad? Old? Uncool? We choose the tools and methods we choose for piece of mind, to be able to create without the fear of a technical mis-step. At least that's how most working professionals I know choose to operate. Maybe it's different in other places.

You work how you want, I work how I want. Where I work, this is how things are done, it doesn't matter if it's old or I've been trained to recognize it, it's a specific look digital cinema or analog film. Commercial, Music Video, Narrative, and sometimes even Documentary.

Your shutter argument strangely only applies to cameras that would more than likely be used for high speed or special applications (crash cams--Which noone uses anymore in exchange of digital besides film purists, action cinematography, etc. ). But you already knew that, I am very sure.

I am in "hollywood", sincerely do not need a survey to know that I'm far from alone on this. Your mileage may vary due to area and experience.

We all know what 48P and 60P are for as far as cinematic image acquisition formats and delivery: 3D. We aren't talking about 3D, it's irrelevant information.

The bottom line is that you think one way, I think another way. It is not important for me to convince you or try to get you to see it my way, it is important for me to respond when you tell me how to work, what I can or cannot see, so on and so forth.

Now that we've stated our "personal-views", we can definitely move on, me thinks?

30P skeeves me out, as do the other higher acquisition framerates being touted by people like Cameron and Jackson (I'm not speaking of overcranking, of course). It's true that the 24P I've seen most of my life has been on 60hz displays with 3:2 pulldown and judder, but I can still see a hell of a lot of difference between that cadence and 30P/48P/60P displayed at those speeds. One says cinema to me, the other says soap opera. I don't see my feelings about that changing or evolving even if it becomes the trend in high-budget 3D spectacles. That's not really my ideal of great cinema anyway, and I'm perfectly okay if the filmmakers in question want to do that with their films, because I'm not a fan. If Michael Mann did it, I would have to take a look and reconsider, though - I did enjoy the much-maligned Miami Vice and Public Enemies despite the nutty shutter angles and general 'video' feel.

I don't know if I could tell the difference between 48th and 50th of a second, but 24p and 30p? Seriously, 30p has that LIVE feel, 24p is more hypnotic and filmic. Most anyone can see a difference in a matter of seconds. Two distinct looks -- I sure don't want to see narrative at 30p.

I have do an animation project (manga feeling) in 30p but i'm live in a pal country.. Why? Because 30p give me more motion! So simply.



Don't masturbate your brain, guys^^.
Retinian persistence'll be always subjectiv.
Eyes are such different ;-)

@kholi, I'm saying that while 180 degrees is the standard for 24 fps, 172.8 is close enough for a lot of professional work. Plenty of movies shot in Europe use that shutter angle, no doubt. (and I'm sure you know why)

nm

Hello Guys I surely enjoyed reading all that...But I am a beginner in making motion pictures, I did a lot of stills though...so I wonder...It's probably a very basic question but I don't actually have the answer...

1-Do you mean that you leave the shutter always on the same speed to avoid this flicker effect and control exposure only with aperture and ISO???

2-How do you get the Save Private Ryan kinda feel ? I tried to dial it on the
GH2 and couldn't...

3-Now that my GH2 is hacked i put Driftwood Seaquake in it and now when i press Rec the ISO function is on auto iso no matter what i dialed is it normal??

Regarding 3, yes it's normal. Your ISO hasn't changed to normal, it's just a bug of unlocking the higher iso numbers (I think).

Also, since you should ask these questions in the beginner's topic.

@AlexManta @cbrandin re the Private Ryan look, it's a 45degree shutter on a 35mm film camera; you don't dial in a shutter speed, you dial in shutter angle and film rate, be that 24fps, 25fps etc On a digital camera, dialling in a higher shutter speed should give the effect - 180 degree shutter (film) being the equivalent of 1/50th second shutter speed (digital) for 25fps, therefore 45 degree shutter is 1/200th second shutter speed for 25fps. Great explanation on it all here - http://tylerginter.com/post/11480534977/180-degree-shutter-learn-it-live-it-love-it