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Slo Mo in 1080
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  • good luck.. justed looked for it and could not in a hurry. But I remember people has been testing higher framerates and failed.

  • i cant find that topic. if it is a post in a topic, a will never find it...

    but if i set it higher then 50fps, then double frames starts to appear.

    will test it against a fast moving object, in real live. ad home dosen't work so great :lol:

  • Frame rate changes for MJPEG does not work. It has been tested numerous times and now it has been abandoned.

  • Damn it did look good, but indeed, things are speeded-up...

  • @mozes: Is the directshow plugin it working 100% for you? As an input plugin I have nothing to complain (aside from having to configure the input do be directshow on the File Open dialog), but sometimes VDub hangs when outputting (it crunches almost all the video but freezes at the last frames). I have no idea but I suspect it might be related to b-frames use (either on input or output). In case you have problems, there is an alternative plugin for Quicktime which I've given a quick test and seems to work also for AVCHD: http://forums.steves-digicams.com/editors-photoshop-vegas-final-cut-pro-kdenlive-etc/172321-importing-mov-1080p-720p-hd-videos-eg-kodak-zi8-directly-virtualdub.html#b

    @mpgxsvcd: How do you rate 720@60p against 1080@60i (properly deinterlaced) in terms of spatial/temporal resolution?

  • works great. but do you set ask for extended options after this dialog
    + i use the ffshow codec with the standard settings.
    witch is set to mjpeg (fourcc)
    Maxium iframe of 250
    and minimum iframw interval is one.
    there is a option to save it as raw frames (but i never used that).

    And i never use 50i this was just to test something out...
    But rendering take way to much time....(more then one minut per frame).

  • just did use 25i again, and i am very surprised abouth the quality.
    placed on the timeline in sony vegas and renderd to a uncompressed avi file (match media settings)
    (it works way faster then in VDub)

    In virtualdub added the filter"Bob doubler"
    Virtualdub 1.8.0 and up has bob doubler, deinterlace and field bob built in
    Field order, top first Deinterlace method, Bob (or adaptive ela). Not the "none-double up frames"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thats all, and you have a nice clean 50p clip..

  • Very important if you use AVISynth to care about decoder!!! CoreAvc Pro seems to be a must instead of using ffdshow. Otherwise you will see a lot of rubbish. Starting from 50i / 60i Yadif gives then wonderful deinterlaced 50p/60p or slowed down to 25p/24p a slow motion rate of 2x/2.5x.

    Subsequent usage of "Interframe method" http://www.spirton.com/category/interframe/ shows very good results at 4x / 5x even with complicated scenes. Important is also to use a shutter speed of at least 1/100s / 1/125s.

    By the way transforming 60i to 60p (by Yadif) and then to 120p (by Interframe method) and subsequent 5x frame blending (by temporalsoften method) leads to high quality 24p. (60i --> 24p :-)

    Does somebody know other alternatives to CoreAvc Pro....

  • Tida, for a DirectShow h.264 decoder, try the latest stable ffdshow-tryouts (beta 7 rev 3154) with the h.264 codec set to 'ffmpeg-mt'.

    And if you think Yadif does a good job, try QTGMC.

  • Thanks @balazer I will try it, QTGMC seems to be one of the latest developements which includes motion estimation. I'm wondering if a 60i --> 24p transformation via 120p would give a better low light (especially high iso) performance than natural 24p. Maybe neat video should be used directly after 60p deinterlation. Then the subsquent motion estimation to 120p. The final 5 times blending should then reduce some additional noise. Did somebody tried this in the past.

    Would me wonder if finally 60i outperforms 24p in lowlight....

  • @duartix I keep getting the same error you are describing in vdub, have you found any work around? thx

    I´m also trying to find wich produces better slowmo, 720 50p vs 1080 50i deinterlaced to 50p, one will lose vertical resolution in the process of deinterlacing, but what I find anoying is the weird cadence of deinterlaced footage slowdown...

    O dia não acabou! :)

  • @duartix @MrEdd in virtualdub the clip short the clip, doesent that help?
    image

    virtual-dub-split-video-files.jpg
    457 x 315 - 37K
  • @mozes my original clip has 430 frames, is that too long? Whats your export option?

  • @MrEdd i have done clips of more then 1000 frames, i export to ffmpeg (i must try dnxhd someday)
    and i used clips that where shot on Driftwood GOP1 AQ2 'AQUAMOTION' Experimental patch/settings.

  • @mozes you export them to ffmpeg from vegas? I mean how do you output the files from Vdub I was trying doing it directly from Vdub, but since it hangs in the final frames, I tryconverting it to avi 50i first . In Vdub v1.9.9 found that deinterlacing using Yadif is the one with better results. Still doing more tests

  • @MrEdd : My usual workaround is to crop a few frames from the end of the video using those buttons that @mozes showed you.

    About 720p vs 1080i, @mpgxsvcd (which I consider to be an expert on this issue) has much higher regards for 720p, not only temporal wise but resolution wise too. If it's slow motion then it's 720p60...

  • @duartix ok obrigado, it´s just I saw a comment from @Ralph_B here -> http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/1542/gh2-720p5060-and-1080i60-settings/p4 saying:

    "@mozes I know what you mean about the 1080i. Over the years I've done many, many, many comparisons between 720P and 1080i, where I blew up the 720 to 1080. Even though I really want the 720P to be better (or at least the same), it just isn't. With a high quality de-interlace, the 1080i wins every time"

    Perhaps its just applied to normal playback instead of slowmo but made me want to try it by myself...

  • Use the highest shutter you can with twixtor. 1/500, even 1/1000 if you can. Shoot 60p, too. Makes a big difference.

    Here's a vid of my cat jumping around. Some shots 60p conformed to 24p, then slowed to as low as 2% in Twixtor.

  • @dpb : Rambo looks great. You should have had him casted for "Heroes" though. His back legs have some pretty amazing space continuum distorting abilities. ;)

    But the video looks great the first time you watch it without prejudice, and that's what really matters. :)

  • @duartix Yeah, there is some warping, but that's a very quick and dirty example. Twixtor is really cool, in that you can use after effects to mask around the subject and isolate it, which helps greatly eliminate the warping. Of course, it's pretty tedius, but it's nice to have that option for serious work.

  • Ah @dbp, thanks for the tip. Can you mask by color/luminance? Is it a lot of work?

  • @duartix It is time consuming, depending on the shot. You have to mask out the subject in the slow mo layer, the regular motion layer, and you have to adjust it frame by frame depending on the background. My cat video above didn't use any masks or advanced techniques like that. By the looks of it, you can get much better results if you do take the time to use the masks.

    Here's the two best tutorial videos I've seen. Part 2 is where they get into the masking.

  • Ok so I was trying out the 1080 60i method. My question is after import to After Effects, it shows that my footages are 29.97fps instead of 60i. I try the same thing with Premiere and after setting my timeline to AVCHD 60i, my footage still shows up as 29.97fps. Am I doing anything wrong? I though I suppose to get 60i so I can convert to 60P by deinterlace.

  • It IS 29.97FramesPerSecond. Each frame contains two fields. So its 60i (means 60 Fps time resolution wrapped into 29.97fps file). And indeed all this intelacing shit should be over since years... add some 3:2 pulldown, run this trough a format conversion...

  • Ok so how do stretch this 29.97 wrapped up shit out to 60p?