Official Panasonic GH3 topic

Astro

@kazuo Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, I just want to make it clear...this is not my clip, its a clip I like the look of done on the GH2.

When I said I have other 1080P clips that look as good, those are indeed mine and I am working on them and they are not on Vimeo as there is a lot of postwork to do...but this clip example is not my work

Cheers

Tron

@Vitaliy_Kiselev

Thanks Vitaliy... I am anxious to see what proves to be real vs. unfounded in the end.

Astro

@thepalalias Quote You guys are making me think back to the 90s, and when I was dreaming of being able to afford a good radiosity renderer but made due with mid-level software to render things for months at a time.

Ha ha yeah I remember that, rendering still is frikkin time consuming thing tho, the faster computers get, the more goodies you tend to tick in the renderer to get that elusive special look.

On the Gh3 tho, yeah it appears that there are two general types of shooters here.

1.The type of shooter that want a good camera that does Low light, less noise, Fast Auto Focus, less banding and takes good stills, and the GH3 ticks all those boxes definitely. I just want to make it clear I am not saying its a bad camera, but right now its not the camera for me. That could change tho...nothing is written in stone.

2.The type of shooter that wants an aesthetically pleasing video and doesn't mind waiting for the right light, or creating the right lighting and angles...and doing some extra pre production for that little extra look that makes a video look great. And right now the GH2 ticks those boxes more than the GH3 and so does the BMCC too...under $4,000. But the BMCC needs a lot of stuff to pimp it up, so for now I will wait and see.

tvpglabs

@aria I kind of have to blame panasonic for creating this tempest in a teapot. I look at panasonic's strategy for camera release compared to nikon's. Panasonic launch's one of the most anticipated cameras of the year by showing up with a handful of units, some more complete than others, but all running beta software. They say they'll start shipping by the end of the year, but we all know what that means.

Nikon on the other hand announces the d600 and starts shipping almost immediately. If panasonic was more organized and presented an actual complete product and shipped it promptly, there wouldn't be 1000 messages of speculation and anxiety.

kellar42

We all have different eyes. The GH3 stuff looks better to me than that GH2 clip posted in this thread. A lot of these replies are getting pretty hilarious. If you want to worry about something important, worry if we'll be able to get our hands on one of these things before December or not!

Interestingly, Panasonic just sent out an invitation for photographers here to come to a special preview on Tuesday...could they possibly have a GH3?

L1N3ARX

@Atro I think you're dead on. The practical shooters here are scratching their heads thinking... eh! What gives, look at all these improvements, how can you be complaining!?

Then there's slightly impractical people like us, that thrive off the image alone. We could care less if it's made of cheap plastic, with odd noise / iso issues, banding etc. If it's got the image... we will make it work. I agree that the GH2 has a certain magic to it that hasn't been easy to find in other cameras. For some, they could care less. For others, it's a god-send because we see an innate cinematic quality in the GH2 that's hard to come by unless you have a very fat wallet.

You put it well I think, that if you've got the time and energy to set up shots properly with good lighting... then the GH2 will produce an image that simply can't be matched unless you've got 15k or more to spend. Although now with the BMCC, that's finally starting to change.

svart

Hate to say it guys, but a lot of software in beta gets relabeled and sent out as gold software. In this case, they might take firmware 0.4 and simply rename it to 1.0 and send it out. This isn't based on customer feedback most of the time, it's based on internal Product Verification testing.

brudney

guys, what some of you are doing is seriously overdramatizing things and prematurally dismissing what seems to be quite an improved camera (dr, noise, build, etc.) having only seen one promo-video (PB) and a couple of few second clips (everything shot on a pre-production camera with a 0.4 firmware...)

DealjagdLtd

I think, the GH3 is the best Video-Cam in the World for under 10'000$.

And i will buy one.

At ISO 12800 the Image is so good, it's amazing!

When i have the Cam (i think on Tuesday in 9 weeks, at Christmas) i compare it to GH2 with same settings. At ISO 200, ISO 3200 und ISO 12800. We will see the Difference.

LongJohnSilver

No matter what you say but I downloaded the original 1600 iso video sample posted by @AKED and the noise is nearly ZERO compared to my hacked GH2.

I wish I could use 1600 ISO on my GH2 underwater shots!

itimjim

Personally, I'm going to buy one, see what it's like and then decide if it meets my needs.

svart

@longjohnsilver, @astro Exactly what I was talking about when I said trade-offs. Let's say that this is a Sony sensor (still doubt this heavily) but why would they move to a sony sensor to begin with? Maybe their own sensor designs just weren't quiet enough and in order to get the low banding/noise that we were bitching about before, they felt they had to move to another manufacturer, but at the cost of moire/aliasing and lack of MAR (another thing I highly doubt)? This forum has been spoiled with the hack and now wants an Alexa for 800$! I remember when just getting 44mbit from the GH1 was going to "revolutionize" everything we knew about DSLR video. Now we want focus peaking, 422(or better), virtually perfect video even under starlight, and whatever else someone thinks they should have. Hell, I want a blowjob port on the side of the camera! Why can't panny put that in there too? Isn't that something they can fix in the beta firmware too????

LongJohnSilver

@svart +1

In this thread " I've seen things you people wouldn't believe..." [cit]

People speaking of DR after grading the youtube video!!!

The only shame about the @AKED video is that is really short and not steady but it's clear that the noise is nearly zero. Let see if before the actual availability some new original clips to play with on the NLE will come out. While I agree that if we have so many rants and speculations the real guilty is Panasonic, until then all these discussions are waporware.

pchristoph

@Astro @L1N3ARX +1 well put.

mpgxsvcd

As far as dynamic range goes I believe that we will see very close numbers to what the OMD shows. However, that still will not be anywhere near what the best in class cameras have.

Take a look at this comparison. Look how well the NEX-C3 scored(Almost as good as the Nikon D4)! Now keep in mind that these are measurements with .jpgs and they are all at different base ISOs. However, this test most closely represents what we will see with video since none of the cameras shoot RAW video.

LongJohnSilver

@mpgxsvcd Photo and video DR are related? Is it possible make some DR assumption from AKED original MOV?

mpgxsvcd

@LongJohnSilver

Sure they are related. Are they the same. No. They are not. However, I think that the jpg comparison above will give you a good indication of how bad the GH2 really is(In any mode) and how good the GH3 could possibly be in jpgs and possibly in video as well.

As far as making the assumptions from the video. Not really. It looks better to me but I have no idea how much better. That will take careful testing once the production model is out.

LongJohnSilver

@mpgxsvcd Could you point me a page where DR calculation is explained? How is possible calculating DR from a video. DO I need a controlled environment and shots?

Edit: I reply to myself: pretty in layman's terms:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/determining-exposure.shtml

Diffusion33

@tvpglabs i've just heard a rumor that the D600 has no manual control in movie mode, PB is going to report on this shortly! I will probably stick with the GH2 as i dont like canon for either still or video. After it looks like the GH3 will be the much anticipated hybrid camera on the market. Can wait to see real world test for both video and stills. When is panasonic going to stop burring their head in the sand and be more forth coming with their info and release appropriate samples and marketing ? Sure Canikon had lots of images and videos to showcase their new products!!!!

mee

@LongJohnSilver "noise at 1600 ISO"

Maybe we have different ideas about noise, but using Canis Majoris night, I see zero noise at ISO 1600. Granted I haven't tried it underwater, but I have used it in very very low lighting.

ghkqn

I was planning an upgrade to the GH3 but I now decided to wait and see if the GH3 can produce better photos than the GH2 and how the hack potential will pan out. I was not expecting it, but the Nikon D600 becomes a viable alternative to the GH3. The D600 is a bit more expensive but I do have an Angenieux 28-70 in Nikon mount so that dispenses the need to get a 12-35.

mpgxsvcd

Here are some sample High Dynamic Range images from the GH2. These illustrate what a problem the GH2 has with getting DR out of its jpgs and also out of video.

The first file is the jpg image Straight out of the camera shot with Smooth -2,-2,0,-2.

The second is an edited jpg file to try to balance it out.

The third image is an edited RAW file.

The fourth is an HDR image that I created from 7 1 stop increment files. It is blurry because it was not on a tripod but you get the idea.

The edited RAW file actually does quite well. Even better than the HDR image(Admittedly not a very good one). The jpg image just falls apart when edited.

Any extra HDR is great in my book. I shoot a lot of scenes that will trigger the I.dynamic feature in the GH2. Hopefully, the GH3 will handle those scenes better.

Basically we either need RAW or much better DR. I actually don't want RAW because it is not feasible to manage it yet. That leaves us with just much better DR which is what I think the GH3 could offer. I will definitely redo this test when I get my GH3.

mpgxsvcd

I put this in another thread. However, I think it applies here as well.

The G5 is indeed the GH2 sensor with multi aspect ratio disabled. As the GH3 stands right now it is not capable of being a multi aspect ratio camera. Here is the proof.

The GH2 has a max "Sensor photo detectors" of 18.3 megapixels. The G5 has the same. The GH3 has a max "Sensor photo detectors" of 17.2 megapixels. The G5 and GH2 simply have more pixels of the same size than the GH3 does.

The pixel size for all three cameras is actually equal. That maintains the exact same crop factor and resolution for the 4:3 mode. You can take an identical picture in 4:3 mode with all three cameras.

With 3:2 and 16:9 the G5 and GH3 give you cropped images with a 2.160x crop factor for 16:9 mode. I didn't calculate it for 3:2 mode.

http://www.dpreview.com/products/panasonic/slrs/panasonic_dmcgh2

http://www.dpreview.com/products/panasonic/slrs/panasonic_dmcg5

http://www.dpreview.com/products/panasonic/slrs/panasonic_dmcgh3

svart

@mpgxsvcd where did you see that the pixels are actually the same size? As I mentioned before, the usable sensor area is the exact same, while total pixels is lower in the GH3. Because of this I think the pixels are actually larger since fewer pixels are taking up the same amount of room.. As we've been over before in other threads, people wanted lower pixel counts for larger pixels so that low light was improved. Why is it not feasible that panny did exactly that? We've already had reports that the GH3 is indeed a MAR sensor, but isn't enabled. Why isn't this just as likely as a Sony sensor without MAR? Panny didn't build a multi-million dollar sensor fab just to go with Sony's sensors. That just doesn't make any sense at all.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@svart

We've already had reports that the GH3 is indeed a MAR sensor, but isn't enabled.

Only source of this is not really credible.

And it is not supported with any real data we have up to this time.

Why isn't this just as likely as a Sony sensor without MAR?

If you carefully check answers of managers it is really clear that it is Sony sensor.
They just did not commented this claim, and in their language it is just yes.

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