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Hacked GH1 vs. Hacked GH2
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  • So could you please give me the best full "prescription" for a stable PAL Full HD (1920x1080) progressive (25p) camera.

    1. What software and patches....?


    Some of the patches that I have picked up from the discussions are:

    - PTool 3.55d
    -Reliable In-Camera Playback Patch
    -75Mbps GH1 Peak Reliability Patch
    - Blackout-Powell Patch
    -100Mbps Max Latitude Native 24/25p Patch

    Do I need to install all of those?

    Is anything missing?
  • As Mimirsan suggests, the interlaced 50i wrapper used in the stock GH1 PAL 1080p25 mode is nowhere near the headache to deal with as the 3:2 pulldown used in NTSC 1080p24. If PAL deinterlacing isn't a problem for you, I recommend trying the 75Mbps GH1 Peak Reliability Patch. The 1080p25 mode in this patch turned out to be far more resilient than my Native 24/25p patches:

    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/334/75mbps-gh1-peak-reliability-patch-v2-update#Item_11

    @Nic - Once it's hacked, any GH1 can be operated in either PAL or NTSC mode, regardless of what region it was set to when purchased.
  • Is it necessary to have the PAL version in order to have the stable 50i, or does it work as well in a hacked NTSC version?

    I ask since it is much easier to get a Gh1 NTSC to a reasonable price, where as the PAL version is a rarity and quite expensive...
  • Nic
    As long as you have a decent SD card you can use pretty high bitrates reliably & stable with 50i
    With GH1 and 50i you can just deinterlace with your edit program and looks great if done properly
  • @Mimirsan
    sorry - I use the blackout-Powell with Class10 60Mbps with no crash. . .
  • So AVCHD PAL [Full HD] 1920 x 1080, 50i is the only setting that offers stability..

    1. Does that mean that I will have to stay on 17Mbps if I want stability in PAL 25p mode?

    2. the transformation from 50i to 25p in post, how is that done? Just by deinterlacing? I work with Final cut, and use MPEG streamclip from time to time

  • Nic its common for the native patch to crash on any GH1.
    Sorry Butt but the Blackout-Powell patch is not 100% stable Ive had 4-5 card error crashes with this patch.
    However there is a trick to stop the Native patch crashing...hold the camera and the movement seems to prevent it...Tripod lock down shots with highly detail scenes will usually cause a error.

    If you record 50i then do 25p in post you will have no problems.
  • @NIC
    GH1(13) with Blackout-Powell Patch and you have no Problem
  • So the conclusion is

    1. As a PAL user that wants to film in full HD, 25p then the Gh1 is the only possibility, since the Gh1 wraps 25 progressive in 50i in AVCHD PAL [Full HD] 1920 x 1080 is that correct?

    An one more question:

    2. Earlier Mimirsan said

    "if you have it native 25p it will still crash if you lock it down on tripod pointing at high detail...no matter what bitrate you use."

    Is that true also for the PAL version of Gh1, or is it an issue only with the NTSC Gh1 hacked version?



  • This is still a very confusing topic that has been created here regarding the 25P & PAL issue on the GH2..
    I am a GH13 user, most of what I shoot is 720P50...
    What I would like some one to tell me on the GH2 camp is can I get superior bit rate and hack improvements shooting 720P50 PAL on a GH2 if I purchase one...I am holding off as I don't want to get one if there is no advantage..
    Also one more question, can I still get HMI out shooting 720P50 with a hack installed....

    Cheers

  • Since no-one explained specifically ... FPN stands for 'fixed pattern noise'. Also, be aware that if you are desperate for 25p the hacked GH2 can provide 720p25.
  • @feha: "1920x1080 on GH2 = 50i == 25p interlaced"

    Sorry, that's not correct. The GH2 does not produce 25p video in PAL 1920x1080 mode, it produces 50i. That's why many PAL users are using the GH1 instead.

    The GH1 in PAL 1920x1080 mode produces 25p video. By default, the camera wraps the 25p video inside an interlaced stream, but it remains 25p. In practice, it is merely a technical detail, since all video editors are able to automatically deinterlace the wrapper and work with the file as a 25p video.

    Interlacing often causes confusion because it is an archaic relic of the pre-digital era. If its pitfalls create a practical problem for you, it's wiser to learn explicitly how it works than to seek out second-hand advice.
  • I had it bad too with my GH13. Loved the camera, really hated the streaks. GH2 no such problems.

    Great question, but I'd also love to see some GH2 vs AF100 comparisons too. Anybody have both?
  • @Nic

    Easiest way to put it, is FPN and Vertical Streaking show up in underexposed areas.

    Basically Vertical Bars in my footage.

    You can search vimeo and see lots of examples of it.
  • @Nic

    1920x1080 on GH2 = 50i == 25p interlaced

    hope this helps
  • HI LPowel, thx for your response. I have to admit that there are a lot of new terms here and technical details that I will have to study in order to understand, and reading your link about the Reliable In-Camera Playback Patch poses a question, there is says that that patch offers:
    40Mbps FHD mode - AVCHD 1920x1080 24p/25p video (interlaced),

    and my confusion here is that I thought that the "p" after 25 means that it is progressive footage, but here it says that the footage is 25p interlaced. That seem to me to be a contradiction, but I probably don't understand the terms correctly...
  • In PAL mode, the image sensor is scanned as follows:

    1920x1080 on GH1 = 25p
    1920x1080 on GH2 = 50i

    For highest reliability on the GH1, I recommend the Reliable In-Camera Playback Patch:
    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/173/reliable-in-camera-playback-patch-version-2-update-for-all-gh1-gf1#Item_12
  • As you probably can guess from my language I am from Europe, and all my questions refer to the possibility of 25p in PAL
  • Regarding Skeptikals response.

    I am not very familiar with the whole codec issue. But Is it correctly understood that the material filmed in 50i actually is 50p in a interlaced container?

    And that I then will have a 50p output, from where I can "delete" half of the frames thus getting a 25p?

    And how is the quality compared to a "real" 25 recording...?

    thx a lot to all of you for a quick respons :-)
  • So does that mean the GH2 hack firmware is not applicable to GH2 PAL version? LPowell mentioned in an earlier post that we won't get 25p in 1080p, which means images will continue to be acquired at 50i? But when I tested the images recorded off my PAL version, the frame rate read 25p - is that faux 25p, via a wrapper?

    I can't wait for Vitaly to finish his good work, but appreciate if he could also shed more light on the implications of his work for PAL owners like me
  • @Nic If you need 25p in full HD...the most reliable way to get it on the GH13 is to use 50i since it is Progressive Segmented...i.e the acquired 25p image is simply divided/interlaced to facilitate internal data transmission. Easily/automatically recombines back to true 25p in a NLE (e.g. Edius)

    Thus, 50mbps settings @50i PsF will generally not cause problems whereas enabling 25p will cause grief....lots.

    This is why I'm keeping my GH13's no matter what eventuates with the GH2...UNLESS we no longer have to Cry for Argentina...
  • 1.if you have it native 25p it will still crash if you lock it down on tripod pointing at high detail...no matter what bitrate you use.
    2. vetical streaking is FPN...this is lines that appear vertically over the image in high iso's (usually over 800...but some have it even at 400) unlike noise this cant be really cleaned up...you can reduce fpn by playin with exposure but will be still evident.
    3. see 2 lol
  • Hi am am new here, and I am considering buying a Gh1 since I need 25p in full HD, and I understand that the GH1 offers that, but that the Gh2 does not offer that yet. I hope I have understood correctly.

    I am not a technical specialist, but I get a little concerned about the stability of the Gh1 hacked reading your discussion.

    1. Is there a certain limit of bitrate where it works without crashes? I need stability since I sometimes film live events, and it is unacceptable if the camera crashes.

    2. RoryB wrote: "My biggest issue with the gh1 was vertical streaking in certain situations."
    what is "vertical streaking"?

    3. and from brudney : "freakin FPN", what does FPN mean?

    Thx a lot :-)
  • Thanks. You're not making my choices any easier. LOL
  • Svart...exactly
    While shooting my short film we wanted the best image possible..we had to tolerate reshooting takes due to native crashes on GH1.
    Were using GH2 now and I can spot the GH2 shots from GH1 just alone from the resolve...that was before the hack.
    And no more crashes. ;-)