@jleo....now all this isn't to deny the USa's vast fuxups as well. On jan 29th, the US evacuated nearly 200 people from wuhan and had them in quarantine....for 3 fuxing days ! And trumps travel restrictions were too late and millions of dollars short, trying to save his stockmarket reelection. We all know what we're dealing with trump though. We don't have the same benefit of familiar analysis on the ccp. My points about china's guilt are based on my belief of them having foreknowledge possibly even back to december that they had a dangerous infectious agent which escaped from their lab, and covering that up ! And they continue to do so.

from Indi Samarajiva, Colombo, Sri Lanka.

Don’t Blame China For Coronavirus. Blame Everyone

China wasn’t much slower than anybody else

Governance Is Just Slow

The delay in fighting coronavirus isn’t unique to China. It’s a flaw in governance itself. Actually, it’s not even a flaw. In government, delay is a feature, not a bug.

Think about it. Do you want your government to shut down your economy and lock you in your house? This is ideally an unusual event, and any government has checks and balances designed to prevent such dramatic action or at least slow it down.

Pandemics are hundred-year events that demand a massive and early over-reaction to stop. Governments are not built for this at all. A government is a tanker ship, not a jet ski.

If a government did this sort of radical change often, it would be chaos. You don’t want a tanker ship doing donuts and throwing cargo overboard, you just want it to go straight and not tip over.

Furthermore, any politician’s prime directive is to cover their ass, not to shut down their entire economy because science. The whole system is conservative by design, and conservative means slow to change.

But of course, the virus doesn’t care.

Faced with an exponential pandemic, you have to suddenly retrofit this tanker ship with skis and rockets and start throwing your economy overboard and locking people in their rooms. This takes time. Whether the captain is a dictator or democratically elected, it just takes time.

This is not a problem unique to authoritarian governments. It’s a problem with authority in general.

https://medium.com/@indica/dont-blame-china-for-coronavirus-blame-everyone-8e98850d0280

After relentlessly framing China as an enemy, the west is then asking why their enemy didn’t save them. It’s meaningless and only feeds the pointless resentment that got them in trouble in the first place. If the west was unable to learn from China, they could have still learned from a dozen other countries. But still, they remained arrogant. They remain arrogant to this day.

https://medium.com/@indica/white-arrogance-is-getting-people-killed-78ba41f2b404

Good article

Secrets behind China’s high COVID-19 cure rate

First-level public health emergency response activated across the country

Between Jan. 23 and 25, many provinces, autonomous regions, and municipalities in China activated the first-level public health emergency response to the COVID-19 outbreak, which ensured the prompt and orderly implementation of epidemic prevention and control measures.

Locking down Wuhan

After COVID-19 cases started to surge in Hubei province, China put Wuhan under lockdown and imposed outbound travel restrictions on the whole of Hubei province, effectively cutting off the virus transmission route.

Building makeshift and temporary hospitals to treat COVID-19 patients

The Huoshenshan Hospital and Leishenshan Hospital, two makeshift hospitals China quickly built to treat COVID-19 patients in Wuhan after the outbreak of the disease, in addition to several Fangcang temporary hospitals converted from public venues in the city, did much to ease the pressure on medical resources during the initial stage of the pandemic

Tens of thousands of medical workers from all over the country went to help Hubei

As Hubei and its capital Wuhan faced its most difficult period, medical workers volunteered to join assistance teams and went from provinces and cities around the country to help Hubei fight the virus.

A total of 42,000 medical workers from across the country, including top medical experts and specialists in respiratory medicine, infectious diseases, and critical care medicine and more than 10 academicians, together with over 60,000 local medical staff, provided an extremely high standard of medical care for COVID-19 patients in Wuhan.

“Four early” + free medical care

While promoting a set of guidelines on early detection, early quarantine, early diagnosis and early treatment to control the epidemic, China provided free medical care for confirmed COVID-19 patients, which helped reduce the economic burden on patients and effectively contained the spread of the disease.

Important role of traditional Chinese medicine

Traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) also helped fight the virus by bringing its unique advantages into play.

Combinations of TCM and Western medicine were actively adopted in medical facilities across the country. Over 90 percent of all confirmed COVID-19 cases on the Chinese mainland saw their symptoms alleviated after receiving TCM treatment.

Face masks on everyone

The National Health Commission (NHC) suggested early on Jan. 29 that people wear face masks in public places.

Chinese people followed the advice and were cooperative in the nationwide efforts to combat the disease, said Tan, stressing that everyone in the country made contributions to the achievements in the battle.

Joint prevention and control mechanism

The joint prevention and control mechanism which was implemented across the country at grassroots levels played an important role in China’s battle against the virus.

Under the mechanism, prevention and control measures were launched to control the sources of infection, interrupt transmission of the virus and protect the public, especially the population susceptible to infection.

Sharing experience, ensuring transparency of data

China has been reporting its numbers of confirmed and suspected COVID-19 cases across the country in real time every day to ensure openness and transparency of the relevant information.

At the same time, the country has ensured the timely sharing of its medical experience in fighting COVID-19, constantly improved its diagnosis and treatment schemes, and drawn up clear procedures for diagnosis and treatment, effective medicines, and rescue measures for severe patients in the shortest time possible.

Saving lives as the top priority

The most important piece of advice China can offer to the world in the fight against the COVID-19 pandemic is to spare no effort to save lives, prevent and control the spread of the virus at all costs, and give top priority to the safety and health of the people.

People’s lives and health have always been the top priority in China, a fact that was vividly proven in the worst-hit Chinese city of Wuhan during the pandemic, according to Ding.

In the face of the pandemic, saving lives became a more urgent task than any other. The country was more than willing to sacrifice economic development for a period of time in order to save lives, Ding noted.

The three principles - controlling the source of infection, interrupting transmission of the virus and protecting the susceptible population from infection - should always be followed in efforts to control an infectious disease, Ding said.

http://en.people.cn/n3/2020/0430/c90000-9686103.html

Interesting, as it seems like extreme anger towards China can be caused by actions that placed now all capitalist countries into Zugzwang situation, where they want to save business, but forced to save lifes (at least stating it publically, but doing little for it).

Masks thing is realtime horrid crime happening at most capitalist countries.

There are also questions that need to be raised to the U.S.

• Why are the CT images of the patients of electronic cigarette pneumonia that broke out last August in the U.S. resemble those of the COVID-19 patients?
• What on earth happened in the bioweapons lab in Fort Detrick, Maryland?
• When did the earliest COVID-19 infection happen in the U.S., since a COVID-19 patient without travel history to China died on Feb. 6?
• Why are American scientists silenced for publishing COVID-19 studies in the U.S. which always brags about its freedom of speech?
• Chinese and European scientists have published multiple genetic sequencing results of the novel coronavirus, and why doesn’t the U.S. release its studies as the top power in biogenetic studies?

The U.S. politicians must give answers.

Fun thingies

@Vitaliy.... ""since a COVID-19 patient without travel history to China died on Feb. 6? "" ....obviously there was early asymptomatic transmission involved, which makes corona so hard to trace. I google this..... ""American scientists silenced for publishing COVID-19 studies"" and found nothing. You have a link ? And I googled "" US hasn't published multiple genetic sequencing results of the novel coronavirus"" and get nothing as well. What's your point ? I wouldn't wait for a US politician to answer you. The first 2 points are highly interesting. And maybe 5g is how they trigger the dormant corona in asymptomatic carriers months or years later.....and omg...that great article is like the chinese communist party propaganda central, writing an article patting itself on the back after arresting how many independent verifiers ? Give me a break ! Even I've ignored the US govt's intel piece as being too much.

Some sense of normal, with precautions.

@kurth

No. You just don't have to read, as it is too painful, so better just ignore.

In US you have competition of hospitals, lot of hospitals aim to maximize income instead of helping people, inside medical community it is extreme non transparency as each want to get maximal money and do not tell anything to competition (of cousrse it is lot of exclusions, but in general it is such). One private hospitals company will never help another company even if it'll be lot of people who die nearby.

In US you have people and firms (including Amazon) who speculate reselling masks and respirtators, it is almost impossible to buy one for cheap and fast. In US you have lot of authorities who tell you not to wear masks, and you have lots and lots of people without any masks (contrary to China).

In US states fight with each other, instead of help. Instead of real production and real scientific talk in US we have big companies fighting for funding, contracts and just channeling money in Asia, frequently now even not checking any quality.

In US actually no owner cares about medics, almost no one had any planned supply of proper protection equipment. So where hospital had money and could catch them it had been more or less good - all other just had been forced to catch virus and lot of them died.

@kurth

One ex PV member I talked in chat expressed it as "we really need to bomb China, as it showed how inefficient and fucked up we are. This can't have any excuse.".

Hospitals get paid to treat corona patients. They get paid more because it's expensive and more difficult than , on average, normal patients, obviously.

Where I wrote things you try to reply here?

Do you actually understand that competition in medicine in this case kills? As it does not allow to share knowledge, people and supplies?

It has it's advantages as well as disadvantages. It's more creative.

Creative? For now all this "creativity" made is to kill lots of people and archieve one of most horrid results.

As well as talking to people like they are idiots.

That's why china copies everything we make...or steals it.

Read less right wing sites, it helps to keep mental health.

Amazon can't even sell n95 masks, much less speculate.

Amazon actually speculated on this wildly, and still provides third parties a way to sell masks or respirators, not officially, but they try to ignore listings for some time before any bans.

US states are separate states with their own laws. That prevents tyrants from taking control....like in alot of places we know!

And it's known china was buying up ppe in december and early january before hospitals responded. And not only the US , but all of the americas medical systems were unprepared.

Any real documents that China bough supplies in December in any unusual amount? As in early January it had been fully public.

Why US system had been unprepared and why leading big companies instead speculated on market making special deep dive where they can get not only tens of billions of profits from trading, but also new trillions of stimulus? Don't you think they must be made responsible?

Come on @Vitaliy...you change your responses after I've already responded.

I have edit history, I just added few points. Nothing that can hurt your response, and I did not see it while changing.

The real crime was hiding the release, hiding it's contagiousness, and allowing wuhan international travel.

I think we already had been past this?

You can't prove any "hiding the release", you can't state any " hiding it's contagiousness" - just look at western medical press and research shite level - they do all harm all by themselfs.

And if china did so well in it's response, then why is it hiding the origin. You can't believe any of their numbers, if they're hiding the why.

China has lot of capitalism, but they also have completely different system otherwise.

Thing that you, western press or your elites can't get is that such system works differently.

They can play with statistics a little (and they do), but all this western bullshit about constant statistics falsifications are completely dumb.

If you believe the virus escaped , then they hid that information. The whole time they were telling people it came from the wetmarket. Shxt, they're still pushing that crap. If you believe the virus crossed over from animal species, then you're in the china camp.

I think it is being lab made, but not Chinese lab. And I really think that Chinese made extreme error by allowing Wuhan lab do the thing they did (due to EU and US assistance and with their help, I must say).

This error is not random, as such way opportunistic elite hoped to move slightly further into pure capitalism and hoped to gain good argument in trade war.

As I already said, I think timing of release had been selected according to information that US intelligence had from this lab, and as soon as they had been very close to getting real good results they could not wait (having their own virus and many strains will mean that it'll be full parity and strike is impossible).

So that you see now is full analogy of US nuclear strikes on Japan, that had been made only as warning (and big bluff, as US could not do bombs in any good amount of the time) and it worked. Without this US and allies will definitely be forced to leave Europe completely.

Sure capitalism kills. All types of govt's kill. The big question is which type offers the most resistance to totalitarianism ? Seems history so far shows communism offered the least resistance so far. Doesn't mean that'll always be true.

Your issue is using terms without understanding them fully. Here you are using term "totalitarism" that had been made up by western propaganda and it just actual bullshit that have no palce in any serious talk.

Let me explain, I just look at the ruling class and proletariat. It is US and some of their EU allies who actually badly needed destruction of small business and overall fast reduction of life level for their proletariat.

As they are now in situation with resource shortages, in situation where their technologican leadership evaporates and you can see it with naked eye.

We will definitely see this developing, where western countries will try to establish Chinese like control and China will go into opposite direction more and more as it'll gain power advantage.

...doesn't matter which lab/country made/isolated the virus. Only matters where it was released. China had been working on gain of function of corona at wuhan. The virus is so contagious, leak source had to be near breakout i.e. wuhan lab.

Actually only this matters, as only "who had real reason, real gain" matters. All else is just nice space dust.

I think I understand totalitarianism fairly well. It was illustrated in stalin's soviet union, east germany and other satellites, mao's cultural revolution, cambodia's pol pot, even chile's pinochet. Communism , since it's already a centrally controlled style of govt has a headstart.

As we already figured out you have very vague understanding of Stalin time, as wel as Cultural Revolution. At least if we remove bunches of shit written and made up by present ruling class.

Communism , since it's already a centrally controlled style of govt has a headstart.

Same here, communism is actually stateless thingy. But not socialism.

The state is a product and a manifestation of the irreconcilability of class antagonisms. The state arises where, when and insofar as class antagonism objectively cannot be reconciled. And, conversely, the existence of the state proves that the class antagonisms are irreconcilable.

V.Lenin

Check The State and revolution, for starters.

Add to that, centrally controlled govts fall prey to dictators more easily, then you have totalitarian dictatorship. Otherwise it's just some orwellian formula, like present day china. Your opinion of some cohesive ruling class moving pieces around the board, is speculation. In this world there are ruling classes for every village, and no one has identified any elevators going up.

We also figured out that you do not understand that classes are :-) And that no dictator ever ruled by himself. Even monarchs who attampted to do something really important against wishes of ruling class instantly had some big issue (usually parted with his life).

Without dictators (democrats won't agree here :-) we can just watch Trump. No matter his inner thoughs and wishes is is forced to tell things he tell about China and do certain economics and politics things. Using his talents he can slightly delay or soften certain things, but he can't prevent them or delay for long time.

Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Bezos....google, paypal, twitter. Looks to me like these guys don't agree on much....except how to keep their money close.

Class is not about Gates or Bezos. If you remove them all instantly almost nothing will change and none of core interest of ruling class will change 100%.

@Vitaliy....1)"'Actually only this matters, as only "who had real reason, real gain" matters. All else is just nice space dust."" well we know the virus probably originated , or was first extracted from bat population in china. Many countries have had possession. It's who leaked the virus from a supposedly secure facility, accidental or otherwise, that's culpable. 2) the problem with marxism....and writings of it's adherents .... is they were writing that dated shxt before archaeology and anthropology taught us how states were really formed. A state is a organism first created before individual classes even existed. You guys think history starts with das capital. States were first formed to organize resources for survival at least 10,000 years ago. Even the example using monarchs shows how ethnocentric marxism is. 3) and was communism this stateless thingy when lenin was alive ? And wrong or not, I believe what solzenitzin wrote, contrary to some disinfo attempting to disprove otherwise. And you still haven't given me one name of this mythical ruling class. You might as well tell me aliens from andromeda are them. Otherwise they have names, birth certificates, countries of origin, etc. I think everybody on top wants to stay there, but they have others pulling them down the hill. It's all in our blood...to be slaves, or to be kings, and everything in between.

@Vitaliy....and if they aren't a small elite group of individuals....then they aren't doing shxt like releasing a virus. Your theory is based on this economic model of how theoretical ruling class might act, not on any historical facts. And the whole world believes solzenitzin as well...it's called consensual reality. Doesn't have anything to do with religion. You're the one who said communism was a " stateless thingy?...whatever that meant. And marx's idea attempting to connect hunter gatherers as some form of primitive communism analogy to his day is simplistic...because archaeology and anthropology were in their infancy. Tribalism is already a state. 19th century anthropology modeled itself on current biological principles...that societies are born, grow and die, like individuals, hindered by the racists angle to the theory of evolution. All of it obviously turned out to be untrue. And Marx's anthropological sources are no longer quoted in the 20th century...like lewis morgan. Wtf was he ? So all of marx's sources were flawed. Maybe you should start reading levi-strauss, paul radin, victor turner. Primitive societies turned out to be alot more complex than marx was capable of knowing at the time, which makes his analogy wishful thinking. And I see I'll get no names to fill that ruling class list.