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Shoot Run and Gun 4K60P RAW and 4K 120P for Less than $5,000
  • markr041markr041

    The Sony FS700R ($3500) + Atomos Shogun Inferno ($1300) + SSDs and any Sony E (OSS) lens.

    Run and gun means one can carry around a camera with no rigs, poles, tripods or other aids shooting handheld, for hours. The FS700R needs the 7" Shogun Inferno attached by wire to shoot 4K60P and 120P RAW. Can this combo be used for run and gun?

    Well, if you think of the Shogun not as a monitor but as just an external recorder, then you can just put it in a shoulder bag. Convergent Design makes a very thin and flexible (you can tie it in knots they show) 3' SDI cable. So carry the recorder in a shoulder bag and shoot with the camera. The cable is so thin and flexible and long, it is as if it is not there (SDI cables also have more secure attachments than HDMI cables; no danger of the wire coming loose).

    The picture shows the rig - the tripod is just a stand-in for the videographer. No tripod allowed for this. Just me and the bag and the camera. The camera has a perfectly fine monitor, touch screen, and all the focus assists one needs - (peaking, 8X magnification moveable frame). No need for another monitor. I wish Atomos would just make a little recorder that does what the Inferno does, in a small size.

    So, out to shoot at 4K60P and 120P in the field. First stop - chickens, slowed down by 1/4 in 4K (real 4K, not UHD). Cinematic chickens.

    The lens: The Sony 14-70 FE Zeiss.

  • 21 Replies sorted by
  • markr041markr041

    I now have produced a 4K 60P HDR video using some of the clips from the above video. I used the free version of Resolve. The conversion from SLog/SGamut to REC709 2.4 gamma or ST2084 is excellent, better than using any of the Slog LUTs floating around to do conversions. Now that Resolve is a full-featured video and audio editor, it seems the best way to go for editing from RAW or log gamma clips. And the "full' version is only $299. It also automatically injects metadata into the HDR videos it creates that is recognized by YouTube. No other editor does that.

    Here is the 4K 60P HDR video (note: you will only see Youtube's SDR conversion of the video if you cannot view YouTube HDR videos in HDR):

    If you have the Google Pixel, the LG V30, the Samsung Galaxy S8, the Samsung Note8, or the Sony Xperia XZ Premium you can view this video in HDR automatically in the YouTube app. The HDR version even viewed on the cell phone (I have an S8) is incredible. See the white bus in bright sunshine.

  • markr041markr041

    Sony LUT used to convert from Slog2.

  • markr041markr041

    Logarist follow-up: I did the comparison video in AVCHD, FullHD 60P internal.

    Of the color modes using the ITU709 gamma (including no Picture profile), I prefer ITU709Matrix. So, it would be great if the color mode associated with Slog2 in the FS700R had a LUT that transformed the color to ITU709Matrix.

  • markr041markr041

    Wanted to shoot preparing a bubbly soda in 4K 120p slowed down and up close. Unfortunately, the soda was flat, and so is this video.

    End trigger worked well, though - nailing the exact action. And skin tone and detail are excellent.

  • markr041markr041

    I am not fully sure what is going on. Since the Shogun is recording from camera RAW to ProRes, it has to choose a gamma and gamut. But both Atomos and Convergent Design insist that the camera be set to Slog2 for recording the RAW. There are certainly other in-camera picture profiles. You can gain info from both the Convergent Design and Atomos sites; they seem to be saying the same thing. The "requirements" for recording from RAW are the same for the FS5.

  • balazerbalazer

    Ok, let's PM on that.

    Logarist does have an input transform for S-Log2 with BT.709 gamut. It's "Sony S-Log2 to Logarist.cube". You can try it, but I'm pretty sure that's not what the FS700R's output is. When you process 709-gamut images with a LUT meant for S-Gamut, the output looks wildly oversaturated.

    When sending a raw signal from the FS700R to the Shogun, if you customize the picture profile with a different gamma setting or color mode, is that reflected in the Shogun's image? E.g., do Cine1, ITU709, and ITU709 (800%) gamma do anything? With gamma set to Cine1, do the color modes Standard, Still, Pro, and ITU709 Matrix do anything? Logarist supports BT.709 and Cine1 (if the gamuts are right), and I can easily build a transform for ITU709 (800%). Cine1 actually has almost 1 stop more highlight range on this camera than S-Log2, since it's available at a lower ISO setting.

    I'm trying to wrap my head around how the Atomos raw to video recording actually works. I am thinking that the FS700R's raw output is not completely raw.

    In Logarist you don't need different LUTs for -1 and -2 stops. Just drag the offset slider. (In Vegas that's Brightness in the Brightness & Contrast effect) -0.069 is -1 stop and -0.138 is -2 stops.

  • markr041markr041

    Yes, absolutely. I prefer using Logarist. Also, it would be useful for all FS700 users. Allegedly, the blue and red are off, but I am sure it is more complicated than that. It is possible, that the Slog2 color gamut in the FS700 is actually just REC709! SGamut is in fact not a specific choice in the FS700R menu (PP7) that has Slog2 as the default. The Convergent Design LUTs are also based on the "official" Sony LUTs, and exhibit the same behavior. also, given that ETTR shooting is almost universally adopted by those using Slog2, it would be useful to have LUTs for -1 and -2 stops as well.

  • balazerbalazer

    That's interesting, @markr041. Thanks for sharing.

    I could probably find a way to measure and compensate for the camera's gamut, if you want to try. I've done it for other cameras.

  • markr041markr041

    I really like using Logarist, and the concept. However, its Sony Slog2 LUT is wrong for the FS700. The color gamut for the FS700 is simply not SGamut, which is what the Logarist LUT and the official Sony LUT is based on.

    A shooter with an FS700 created LUTs that actually take into account the FS700 color gamut. Here is a video comparing the Logarist LUT and the customized LUT - the first clip in each sequence uses the Logarist LUT:

    The clips are ones containing reds, and the Logarist reds are orange. The customized LUT gets red correctly. There may be other differences in color, but one notices the red error right away. I did no alteration of colors in any clips, just manipulated contrast and exposure. The official Sony LUT, not included in the video, looks like the Logarist LUT - orangey reds.

  • markr041markr041

    I was just about to post it here.

    The process was certainly much more straightforward than just using a (Sony) LUT and playing with exposure, contrast and curves. And the colors seemed good immediately, especially the greens. All I did was adjust exposure and contrast (Vegas Pro 15). I am not sure about the Logarist reds.

    With both approaches, I am pretty pleased with the colors. I had not liked especially the colors from the A7s ii or the RX100 IV. The latest A6500 colors, however, are good, and the FS700R RAW Slog2 colors are too.

    I am thinking to take the same clips and compare the normal Sony LUT approach with the Logarist one in a video. I will do that early next week - it's pretty easy to do.

    Of course, I am not even using RAWDNG - maybe the colors are even better.

  • balazerbalazer

    @markr041, I stumbled across your new video:

    What was your feeling about the process and end result using Logarist on the Inferno's S-Log2 footage compared to the Sony and Convergent LUTs you had used before?

    I am somewhat interested in the FS700 plus Shogun Inferno. I'm on the fence about which camera I should buy next for better color.

  • markr041markr041

    120 4K Slow Mo Video

    How are the skin tones here, balazer? :)

  • markr041markr041

    It is possible to record a true 120P RAW DNG at 2K with the Inferno.

  • Ralph_BRalph_B

    From what I understand, it is possible to record a true 60P RAW DNG with the Inferno if you do it at 2k. And the FS700 is capable of outputing 2K RAW. Could you try to do a test like this? I would love to see the results!

  • markr041markr041

    Here is a 4K 60P video shot at a beach - so there is skin. This was a run and gun torture test:

    1. Hot (86F), direct sunlight. And the Shogun Inferno (apt name) did stop occasionally due to overheating. The FS700R has no overheating issues at all. By taking the Inferno out of the case and waiting a few minutes, I could get the Inferno to start recording again. It does give a warning, but since I am not watching the screen, I actually experienced a shutdown. In cooler weather, or without a beating sun, I think there would be no problem. This was clearly worst case. And I shot 495 GB's of video (there will be two videos).

    2. Bright sunlight - could I see the camera screen? Yes! The main reason is that it is not reflective. Key was I could see the peaking colors (red) and zebras.

  • balazerbalazer

    To be clear, the recording here is not raw. It's ProRes, in the S-Log2/S-Gamut color space. Only the connection between the camera and the recorder is raw.

    SGamut is proprietary (only Sony knows what it is)

    S-Gamut is no secret. Sony publishes the specification: https://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/micro/dmpc/training/TechnicalSummary_for_S-Gamut3Cine_S-Gamut3_S-Log3_V1_01.pdf Logarist supports S-Gamut, based on Sony's specification. I would encourage you to try Logarist on your recordings. People have told me it works better than the Sony LUT.

    The chicken video looks nice. I'd be interested in seeing some shots of people, to see how the colors are. I was never impressed with the color of the FS700R's internal recordings, but raw makes things different.

  • markr041markr041

    Or frozen...

  • B3GuyB3Guy

    Well, they're not cooked chickens!

  • spacewigspacewig

    Is that 60p of RAW chickens?

  • markr041markr041

    Two Tests: Autofocus and Color

    An important feature for run and gun is good autofocus. No, the FS700R does not have PDAF. But it does have AF and touch screen focus. So, I tested these features in low light (not a tracking test, yet).

    Another FS700R issue that has been mentioned is color. Particularly when shooting Slog, necessary when shooting RAW to get the full DR. The challenge is that Slog is accompanied by a color gamut (SGamut) that is larger than REC709. But almost all screens can only show limited REC709 colors. A translation is needed between the extended color gamut of Slog and REC709 color. SGamut is proprietary (only Sony knows what it is); it is next to impossible to use color controls in an editor to make the translation. So, one uses a look-up-table (LUT) that translates SGamut to REC709 color. There is no other way. You can then deviate from the REC709 color, but it is a reasonable starting point. A lot of the poor coloring one sees is due to using the wrong LUT or none at all.

    Sony supplies a LUT. Convergent Design supplies a LUT. Both for Slog2 color and gamma translation. In this video I try both LUTs and compare. I use my standard color test objects. I also test AF and push focus. Each clip starts with the CD LUT followed by the Sony LUT. There is an obvious difference.

    The Sony LUT provides accurate color - the clips look exactly like what I saw. The lighting was dim and incandescent. I set the camera WB to 3200. F4, ISO2000, 0 gain, shutter 125. 60P. No adjustment in post at all except the application of the LUT.

    AF does not bounce or waver; focus pulls are nice.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @markr041

    Mark, you are moving up :-)

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