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  • More than 257,000 households (7% of all households) are now without electricity in Greece during a crushing economic crisis in which the government has imposed big pay cuts, tax hikes and slashed pensions on the orders of international lenders, and put property tax bills in utility bills under the threat of a power cut for non-payment.

    With winter setting in, households without fireplaces or electricity are turning to often dangerous ways to keep warm, including faulty stoves and braziers, raising fears of another tragedy or people going cold in the dark.

    After talks with Prime Minister Antonis Samaras, Environment Minister Yiannis Maniatis said he he would ask municipal authorities to provide PPC with lists of poor families, noting that the authorities would then decide on a case-by-case basis which households are genuinely unable to pay their electricity bills and ensure they have power.

    The government’s initiative came after a fire broke out in an apartment in the Kordelio suburb of Thessaloniki as the tenants, whose power supply was cut off in May 2012, had left candles unattended.

    http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/12/06/greek-poor-to-get-electricity-back/

  • 37 Replies sorted by
  • Smog has turned into a nightmare for the citizens of Athens, Greece after more smog accumulated again this past Thursday, when many people were attempting to heat their homes using their fireplaces.

    Economic distress and the high heating oil prices have forced thousands of families to burn wood in order to heat their homes.

  • yep...it's a giant house of cards. At least most artist can go back to painting ! And then when the paint manufacturers collapse, we can draw with charcoal sticks made in our cave fires.

  • This shit is real. Time passes and Greece is becoming a benchmark for future problems.

    almost 10% of households with no power, shit put that amount on other developed country like Germany and you have a real deep problem.

    Why cant they produce money for own electricity. Why does government has money to give them electricity but not jobs. I kind of understand the complexity of this fucked system, but holisticaly speaking, the machine still works, so... are they (NATO) making athens fall on intention, just for sheer strategy or athens really is that stupid, or are so deep on game that they have now nothig to gamble on?

  • That happens when you push up the standard artificially and still you've got the eastern europe syndrome of stealing EU funds on all levels... On top of that the greeks want to retire with 54 years... It is not all politics, ... Greeks get three times the salary one gets in Bulgaria, still the prices are equal. And really don't get that about the 'cold' there - it is 14C in Athens at the moment...

  • That happens when you push up the standard artificially and still you've got the eastern europe syndrome of stealing EU funds on all levels...

    What you think that something is artificial? You can go back in this blog and check that even if such assumption from your side is true it just means that Japan, US and many other countries are much more artificial, as you defined it.

  • an alternate viewpoint. If you have the cash, buy your gear now while you still have money. Don't wait. Someone will come and take your money away: the wife, the government, whoever.

    That's what I did and I have 0 future hope of getting any position of consequence, Just assuming you'll have money later never seems to work out.

    You need a camera to film the world burn.

  • If you have the cash, buy your gear now while you still have money. Don't wait.

    Problem here is that gear price won't jump. If you look all the actual charts you'll see that all last years food, energy and basic goods prices are rising rapidly across the world. While prices of fancy cameras are dropping (if you include inflation), actually. I am not even touching how big is drop after next year model comes. In such a way it is wiser to collect your savings, not spend.

    Service, and especially advertisement, wedding and other industry will be the most affected soon (check Greece and Spain). So most of investments you will be doing will never return. Competition will be so fierce so it'll be hard even get enough to live, no talking to get new stuff.

    Someone will come and take your money away: the wife, the government, whoever.

    May be your wife is more smart than you? :-)

  • I think it's a real possibility in the next decade that many non-utilitarian industries will simply be forced out. At some point consumerism with smaller benefits in increased quality will meet the reality of reduced incomes i.e with uhd and 4k. The masses will either keep what they have, buy very reduced older models, or bow out entirely of technological consumerism. Then the companies will begin shutting down.

    Both Europe and America are headed for economic armageddon . Their currencies have no real value. When Germany asked for the US to return it's gold , the US declined. That's been reason enough for war in the past.

    We're at a turning point. You can now have unbelievable quality for little money, if you wait for product replacements. I'd love to see a graph of new adopters decline over the last decade. I imagine it's a drastic fall.

    I know personally I wait to buy, and then wait some more. I just bought the g6 when it dropped. The only reason I didn't wait more is my gh1 is hobbled. As well there's no money to be made, at least as a photographer. Every tom and dick who owns a digital camera can call himself a photographer. The gallery where I show, which is world-class, won't even bother with traditional photography. I imagine cinematography is worse....and I refuse to do weddings and have whining clients !

    So one day , soon or near soon, don't be surprised when big manufacturers begin offering less, and then none. I expect sony, olympus and panasonic to drop first. Last one in....first one out !

  • I think it's a real possibility in the next decade that many non-utilitarian industries will simply be forced out. At some point consumerism with smaller benefits in increased quality will meet the reality of reduced incomes i.e with uhd and 4k. Both Europe and America are headed for economic armageddon . Their currencies have no real value. When Germany asked for the US to return it's gold , the US declined. That's been reason enough for war in the past.

    Problems are fundamental, not currency based only.

  • You can't get any more fundamental than currency.

  • You can't get any more fundamental than currency.

    In this case you have very strange views, and not very deep history knowledge.

  • really ?? ...study the weimar republic. That's close to home. History always repeats itself, with certain surprises.

  • ...study the weimar republic. That's close to home. History always repeats itself, with certain surprises.

    LOL. You can also ask me to study ABC-book :-)

    And no, history does not repeat itself. It is human mind who want to find cycles, parallels, etc. As monkeys mind is very uncomfortable otherwise.

  • study the weimar republic

    Notwithstanding the stories about the wheelbarrows of money you needed to buy a loaf of bread in Weimar Germany, it was deflation that did the real damage to the German economy during the post WWI period. But since deflation doesn't have the same melodramatic appeal to the dreamers who think restoring the gold standard and banning fiat currency would solve all our problems make them fat and happy and punish the wicked, they ignore it.

    Similarly, what's happening in Greece is completely unnecessary. It doesn't reflect core reality. It's just the stupidity of European technocrats whose fiscal policy is a mixture of voodoo and morality play (for other people).

  • Similarly, what's happening in Greece is completely unnecessary. It doesn't reflect core reality. It's just the stupidity of European technocrats whose fiscal policy is a fixture of voodoo and morality play (for other people).

    And this is plain incorrect.

    Why? Check the links about, http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/8756/spain-primary-cause#Item_2 specifically. Greece is same.

  • Sorry, but I don't buy the energy explanation. The proximate cause of distress in Greece and Spain is the interrupted flow of money, and a lot of reckless investment, from northern European financial centers, when the financial crisis hit.

    Once that money spigot was turned off, and being unable to depreciate their currencies, and/or get real support or real debt relief from the EU, things went to hell. You can argue the energy thing for the long term, but the immediate causes of what's happening now aren't a mystery.

  • Sorry, but I don't buy the energy explanation.

    I do not ask to buy anything :-) I just showed facts. And I have plenty of them.

    Only real reasons for problems in PIGS is their energy sources, different energy sources prices and availability and their manufacturing state.

    Money problems are just consequence and all of them are caused by EU regulators trying to control decline and also not loose big banks savings (just to prevent uncontrollable emotion driven consequence).

  • Few more positive charts

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    positive.jpg
    641 x 520 - 69K
    positive1.jpg
    731 x 577 - 59K
    positive2.jpg
    727 x 573 - 62K
    positive3.jpg
    744 x 567 - 64K
    positive5.jpg
    757 x 563 - 67K
    positive6.jpg
    708 x 574 - 64K
    positive7.jpg
    733 x 574 - 63K
    positive8.jpg
    748 x 575 - 65K
  • Let's check wedding market perspectives:

    image

    positive4.jpg
    767 x 577 - 72K
  • One more picture of the future

    Indoor tents are all the rage in South Korea this winter. Apparently they keep you really warm and save electricity as well. In fact, some tent-users say their heating bill has been reduced by half. While the temperature in rooms gets as low as 19 degrees Celsius, the 40,000 won tents are quite cozy at 23 degrees.

    image

    Given their multiple benefits, these tents are flying off shelves in South Korea. One tent maker claims to have sold 4 million in just a couple of weeks. Thousands of tents are on back order, and manufacturers are rushing to make more. We don’t know who came up with the ingenious idea, but it looks like almost everyone has caught on.

    This winter has been pretty harsh for the South Koreans; they are facing power blackouts and surging energy costs with six of 23 nuclear reactors being shut down. People have been looking for cheaper heating methods that save electricity, and the tent is apparently working wonders for them. Families are sleeping in tents setup within their homes to keep themselves warm. Some of them have placed tents on top of beds for extra warmth

    positive9.jpg
    577 x 433 - 61K
  • Looks like a good idea to me! My heat bills are too damn high. It just wouldn't work if I had cats again.

    I don't think energy is the whole story, I think @jrd's explanation is right. But Vitaliy's is as well. Energy is a huge factor, but money itself is huge, a bigger factor than energy sometimes, as it influences the price of energy depending on random whims of market forces. At some point, say if Vitaliy's doomsday scenarios come true, then energy and the facts of daily life become more important and money loses all value, but we're not there yet. You can say this or that is a bubble just waiting to be popped, but until it is, money buys anything and influences all things in this world we are living in.

    If the EU had not squeezed the lifeblood (monetary flow) to a trickle then the PIGS would have money to ease the suffering, and actually have a chance maybe of recovering. As it is, there is no hope in sight. Not for Greece anyway, I don't know how bad things are looking in some of the others.

  • I don't think energy is the whole story, I think @jrd's explanation is right. But Vitaliy's is as well. Energy is a huge factor, but money itself is huge, a bigger factor than energy sometimes, as it influences the price of energy depending on random whims of market forces.

    Money can change distribution of real things, they can artificially prevent production sometimes. But they can't make gold from fart. And making gold from fart is exactly the idea of using money to somehow "improve" things.

    At some point, say if Vitaliy's doomsday scenarios come true, then energy and the facts of daily life become more important and money loses all value, but we're not there yet.

    Btw, I do not have any "doomsday scenery", quite reverse. I am telling that elites use carrots, TV and sports to distract hampsters from understanding real trends. It is like pirate captain on the desert island who do not want to tell his mates that water and food supplies are ending (and that he personally want to eat 80% of remaining ones :-) ).

  • If you cut off monetary supply, you stop everything pretty much. All governments as far as I know rely on short term debt to finance whatever they do the next month. If support is withdrawn then then the governments have to rely on insanely high interest to keep the economy running, and it becomes untenable to do even some of the basic things. If you can't take care of even the basic things, or look like you aren't going to be able to, then all the investors that might create new business pull out and you are fucked.

    You say "It is like pirate captain on the desert island who do not want to tell his mates that water and food supplies are ending (and that he personally want to eat 80% of remaining ones" -- are you saying that energy resources are running out? This does not seem to be the case, as of yet there isn't a shortage of oil and there is more and more natural gas coming from the US and elsewhere. Certainly food is not running out, and water -- well water is a problem in many parts of the world, but not in the EU yet. So if there is a ton of natural gas, more than ever before is probably the truth of it, why should poor greeks be freezing their butts off? It's not because there is a shortage, it's because they've got no money.

  • If you cut off monetary supply, you stop everything pretty much. All governments as far as I know rely on short term debt to finance whatever they do the next month. If support is withdrawn then then the governments have to rely on insanely high interest to keep the economy running, and it becomes untenable to do even some of the basic things. If you can't take care of even the basic things, or look like you aren't going to be able to, then all the investors that might create new business pull out and you are fucked.

    And I know governments who did not use debt (in your understanding) at all. And lived happily.

    Debt, as we know it, came to an end. Just another failed mutation as Carlin would say.

    I also know personally that even if you cut monetary supply people will invent many measures how to make exchanges of real goods. Btw, you can read about them in any good economics book.

    Are you saying that energy resources are running out? This does not seem to be the case, as of yet there isn't a shortage of oil and there is more and more natural gas coming from the US and elsewhere. Certainly food is not running out, and water -- well water is a problem in many parts of the world, but not in the EU yet. So if there is a ton of natural gas, more than ever before is probably the truth of it, why should poor greeks be freeing their butts off? It's not because there is a shortage, it's because they've got no money.

    Huh. How about just go back and check facts, reports and charts that proof all your statements false. You can start from this blog.

    Again, money plays zero role in all current trends. And if you check latest economic conferences speeches elites even started proclaiming it, not in mass media yet, but between them. EU, UK, US and Japan make huge monetary invasions and it did not help much. With EU, UK and Japan big amount of them are used to finance energy and resources they buy, btw :-) US use money to finance resources, oil and gas projects that are otherwise financially not viable (say, with negative income if government do not present you piles of money).

  • The US is fracking all over the place, and yet you seem to be saying there is a lack of resources like natural gas. Well, I may not bother to check the forum on this point, call me ignorant...

    Yet, I have indeed heard of barter. It's not how modern economies work. If you have no other choice, sure. But as long as you are mixing up how governments function and how people get by without credit, I'll add that I don't need to read any economics book to know that even though I could get by for a while trading things, it would suck if I couldn't use my credit card.

    The US does finance some projects that wouldn't be economically viable otherwise, like ethanol, but I don't buy these generalizations, and it just doesn't accord with all that I know and read. I do "check facts, reports and charts" practically every day which form the arguments I've made. I must say that the statement "money plays zero role in all current trends" is something I hadn't heard before, or not for a long time. Very materialist, I guess. Sorry this got a bit intense; I do enjoy arguing, but I'm not sure this is going to go anywhere new and I don't want it to sound personal.