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Technical progress is needed to allow us to produce more entropy
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    The dissipative structures self-organize in order to maximize the flow of energy through them. They maximize the rate at which energy is dissipated through them.

    Human societies self-organize to form ”global brain" to store more information. This information allows them to dissipate more energy. This is what we call the scientific and technical progress. :-)

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    Maximum entropy production of dissipative structures is the true “third law of thermodynamics.”

    The GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of a company is a measure of the rate of entropy production. By maximizing its profit, the producer maximizes the rate of entropy production.

    http://petrole.blog.lemonde.fr/2013/10/30/francois-roddier-par-dela-leffet-de-la-reine-rouge/

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  • 22 Replies sorted by
  • stipstip

    too many technical terms, can't even figure out about what 'entropy' this is about, help? :(

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_(disambiguation)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @stip

    LOL. In fact it is very little technical terms here.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

  • stipstip

    well, hands up who can follow this, I can't ;)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    well, hands up who can follow this, I can't ;)

    Let me make super dumbed down version:

    "People use all their knowledge and society organization to convert maximum possible amounts of energy and natural resources into shit. " :-)

  • stipstip

    ok, THIS I GET, hahaha lol. Thanks Vitaliy!

  • DrDaveDrDave

    In thermodynamics, entropy scales with the temperature of the planet. Absolute zero is the lowest entropy point, or quantum zero point. So if you want more entropy, light a match.

  • FrankAbyssFrankAbyss

    Thanks for posting the video... It was really interesting. I guess my Cliff notes on this would be that everything seeks an equilibrium. In the case of humans (he gives a lot of other biological/physical examples), the faster a society evolves, the more energy it requires and the more information is passed through. The downside of this progress (long term) is that more and more energy is required just to maintain status quo. Additionally, the rate at which information is exchanged is such that genetically speaking, we can not adapt fast enough. (we keep on creating new environments). This state of activity is not sustainable and will be followed by a state of inactivity/death. This process follows laws in nature.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Additionally, the rate at which information is exchanged is such that genetically speaking, we can not adapt fast enough. (we keep on creating new environments).

    Looking around I can say that people adopted perfectly, they just don't give a fuck about information. At all.

  • kurthkurth

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/27/808103/-Can-we-stop-climate-change-The-physics-of-civilization-itself#

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @kurth

    In other words, we need to move to non-carbon energy sources as rapidly as possible. Conservation and efficiency are not viable strategies to reduce energy usage or to reduce carbon footprint.

    Looks like idiot citation.

    I provide much better one:

    No-one seems to have noticed that it is immaterial if global warming/ climate change is man-made or not. The fact is that we cannot continue the way we are because the resources we are depleting will eventually be gone. It won't have a major impact on those who are around now, but future generations will have good reason to curse us to eternal damnation for the massive waste of valuable resources over the last hundred years or so.

  • kurthkurth

    The "idiot citation" seems to me to be thinking those future earth inhabitants will even be around long enough to realize they don't have any fossil fuels left. I believe Tim Garret's research deserves alittle more indepth study than the 5 minutes you gave it...and then made your unprepared comment.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I believe Tim Garret's research deserves alittle more indepth study than the 5 minutes you gave it...and then made your unprepared comment.

    May be, I just read main points and I do not agree with them completely.

    Citation I provided show my position. All this global warming thing is just big distractor, as at same time same people produce-market-sell piles of short lived crap using huge resources. I never heard about any international or mass media effort towards stopping it. Even for fucking global warming it is all just good exercises for their tongue .

  • kurthkurth

    ...a big distractor ?

  • brianlbrianl

    Here's an article about entropy and the origins of life.

    "Why does life exist? Popular hypotheses credit a primordial soup, a bolt of lightning and a colossal stroke of luck. But if a provocative new theory is correct, luck may have little to do with it. Instead, according to the physicist proposing the idea, the origin and subsequent evolution of life follow from the fundamental laws of nature and “should be as unsurprising as rocks rolling downhill.”

    http://www.englandlab.com/uploads/7/8/0/3/7803054/tech2014.pdf

    http://www.englandlab.com/uploads/7/8/0/3/7803054/2013jcpsrep.pdf

    From the standpoint of physics, there is one essential difference between living things and inanimate clumps of carbon atoms: The former tend to be much better at capturing energy from their environment and dissipating that energy as heat......" read it here https://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/20140122-a-new-physics-theory-of-life/

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @brianl

    Good link.

    I also think that this theory can be pushed into social structures, cities forming principles, autos and banking system. Original post were more about this. Seems all according to Carlin :

    Could be the only reason the earth allows us to be spawned from it in the first place: it wanted plastic for itself. Didn’t know how to make it, needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old philosophical question, “Why are we here?” “Plastic, assholes.”

    May be humans were required by nature to dissipate big amounts of oil and gas collected for hundreds of millions years. And after this our mission will be over. We'll die in agony. And some small hamsters will rule the world. Or may be they are already on top?

  • brianlbrianl

    Heady stuff. Carlin may end up being the Aristotle of this era. His thought on plastics is not that far away from some of these exotic math theories floating around out there like this one:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/opinion/sunday/is-the-universe-a-simulation.html?_r=0

    excerpt: "But one fanciful possibility is that we live in a computer simulation based on the laws of mathematics — not in what we commonly take to be the real world. According to this theory, some highly advanced computer programmer of the future has devised this simulation, and we are unknowingly part of it. Thus when we discover a mathematical truth, we are simply discovering aspects of the code that the programmer used."

  • nomadnomad

    Fassbinder made a film about this long before "Matrix", just saying, after all we care about films too…

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Automobiles, as I said early here are perfect example of how people degrade quality of their life and increase entropy.

  • alcomposeralcomposer

    We have to use intelligence to sort fact from "apex preditor syndrome".

    Tipping points are always exciting times to live. (Joke)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @alcomposer

    I am not big believer in abstract intelligence. Actually I think that such proposals are mostly made to hide system flaws and flaws of human nature.

    I see people do interesting and useful things if in certain conditions and environment, but setting such things for masses will require methods most of people won't like.

  • brianlbrianl

    Fassbinder made a film about this long before "Matrix", just saying, after all we care about films too…

    Asimov wrote a cool short story about entropy. I like the version narrated by Spock. It's 30 minutes but worth it. http://www.openculture.com/2015/06/isaac-asimovs-favorite-story-the-last-question-read-by-isaac-asimov.html

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    It is also theory now what life is designed by nature as way to increase entropy

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