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Microphone for GH2
  • Hello everyone!

    First of all, sorry for my english but I'm italian, so maybe I'll do some mistakes during the topic.

    Now, that's the question. I am a videomaker and I decided to record a low-budget movie, after 3 years' experience with short-movies.

    I have the screenplay, I have the cast (almost all), I have the camera (gh2) and I have a problem with the audio.

    As long as I want to produce a professional (or semi-pro) work, I can't be satisfied with the internal mic's quality of GH2. The problem is that the budget is limited (300-350 €), so I can't spend a lot of money.

    Surfing on the internet, I have found two solution: the H4N Zoom and the Rode Videomic Pro.

    Now, many say that for obtain a good quality is necessary to combine the two microphone and so attach the RVP to the H4N and record the audio track on it.

    But, it's possible to have a good quality of sound by using only one of this two microphone? If yes, wich?

    Or there are other choices (considering the budget) that can provide a good quality audio?

    Thanks for reading and for any replies :)

  • 30 Replies sorted by
  • @spacewig Yeah, you're totally right, audio it's something new for me and that's the reason why I'm looking for suggestions from people with experience and knowledge. And yes, I will search in the next days for some manual (but in italian Language XD). Anyway, thanks for resolving my doubt regarding using only the recorder :)

  • @JP_91 I wouldn't recommend any recorder only set up. You will not reduce reverb but pick more of it up for very simple reasons. Further the mics on those devices are usually no where near the same quality as a dedicated microphone, plus the self-noise will drive you crazy during post.

    I don't mean this in a bad or negative way but I strongly suggest you read a basic audio/location-recording book as the questions you are asking seem to betray a complete lack of fundamental knowledge regarding this topic. You will be doing yourself a big favor and will have more confidence making your choices.

    These two books cover most of the basics (there are many others which Google will help you find):

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Location-Sound-Bible-Professional/dp/1615931201/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1366139806&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=locatioon+sound+recording

    http://www.amazon.com/Producing-Great-Sound-Film-Video/dp/024080970X/ref=la_B000APKOEM_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366139846&sr=1-1

  • Another question, I find the Olympus LS-100 almost at the same price of the Tascam DR-100 MK II, wich of this two would you guys recommend?

  • And what if I use only the recorder in the indoors scenes where I see that there is too much reverb noise? It could be a good solution? (Obviously I first eliminate any other noise in the room)

  • @spacewig

    Less emotions, please.

    to all

    Better organize test to compare cardioid, hypercardioid and shotgun (not very long) in room with lots of reverb.

  • @Shaveblog - Um, actually you did. You said "Um, no, shotguns don't pick up room tone".

    I never said that they don't have different purposes from omni, cardioid and semi cardioid microphones. Obviously they do. I just think this needs to be a more nuanced discussion. I think you would agree. So, let's avoid sweeping generalizations like claiming that shotguns don't pick up room tone, even if it wasn't intended literally.

  • By room tone I mean room reverb, and, uh, yes, boom mics pick up plenty of it. A cardioid pattern severely attenuates sounds coming from directly behind the capsule which is where the reverb is coming from (from the mic's perspective). Since you're a fan of simple science compare the pattern of a shotgun mic to that of a cardioid and tell me what part of these very simple graphs you don't understand and that I'm contradicting.

  • @sangye I didn't say shotguns mics don't pick up room noise. Just that they are designed specifically to reject it as much as possible, as this is their reason for being. There is literally no reason to use a shotgun mic unless you are trying to narrow the pickup pattern as much as possible so the mic isolates the distant subject and rejects ambient room noise as much as possible. Debating this topic demeans us both. Seriously, we're arguing about shotgun mics and what they're designed to do differently than a simple omni or cardioid? Really?

  • @Shaveblog - shotgun microphones do pick up room tone. All microphones pick up room tone. That's why any professional location sound mixer worth his salt will record quiet room tone for cutting and mixing purposes in post, regardless of what microphone was used. It's also not true that shotgun microphones are ideally suied for distant subjects, unless you call 3'-6' distant. Any further than that, and you need to rethink your approach.

  • @spacewig Um, no, shotguns don't pick up room tone, they are specifically designed to ignore room tone as much as possible and focus on the distant subject at which they are pointed. That's the whole point of a shotgun - to allow a long-throw microphone pickup reach that isolates a distant source, instead of simply and indiscriminately picking up room sound as well as the distant subject.

    Microphone pickup patterns are far from an indefinable black art - this shit is basic science and has been for ages, which makes it all the more tragic that such relatively simple concepts keep getting fragged by layer upon layer of wham blam rank am fora chucklefuckery.

  • Perhaps you should consider a small diaphragm condenser mic then since shotguns tend to pick up room tone.

  • @spacewig Indoors, is likely 65% indoors and 35% outdoors.

  • @JP_91 Where do you think you will do most of your filming, indoors or outdoors?

  • Yeah, thanks for the advice, from the beginning I was looking for a external audio, because I think that is really important to monitoring the recording in real-time, that is impossible with the microphone connected to the camera.

  • you are welcome! As additional information: there are some phantom powered mics with a battery e.g. above mentioned Røde NTG-2 or Sennheiser ME66 with K6. But if its possible I would always recommend to have another person as boom operator. In most of cases an on camera mic is too far away from the scenery

  • @peaceonearth Ok! Now finally I understand what 'phantom power' means, thank you!

    @astraban Your comment is really helpful for me, so I definitely need to go with recorder and shotgun together on a boom pole, wich seems to be the most professional way with this low budget.

  • Internal mics of the recorder (DR-100mKII I own, or any other brand for that matter) aren't good in any situation if you want to record voice (unless you put the recorder on frame in front of your talent mouth). The recorder is only used to record the sound from the mic (MXL FR-300 for example) you plug in it. It's better to use a recorder than plug the mic directly to your camera because the external recorder usually has better pre-amp (-->better sound) and proper monitoring.

    Then, the best you can do now is buy a recorder you can afford and a shotgun (+boom pole, shock-mount, windshield, etc) and practice microphone placement. There is no better way to have good sound than to know how to find the best position for your mic. With practice, you'll find out that it's sometimes more handy and effective to use lav and you will learn the limits of using shotgun (indoor). Then, from experience you'll know what are your real needs, and find out the good gear without spending money for nothing.

    It's like learning to use light for your image. Learn to use what you have (even practical & natural lights) and once you find out limitations, you'll know which upgrade work best for you.

  • for both mics you need phantom power that ideally means a recorder. They are not supposed to be plugged directly to a DSLR.

  • Please guys, don't argue among yourselves. I like to have much more opinion possible and I thanks everyone for the help, but apart from personal tastes and opinions, my question is what I really need for a good audio. I can use only MXL FR-300 or AT-875r, or I need also a good recorder? (like the DR 100-MK II Vitaliy suggested some post above). And again, is useful to use them together or I have to use only one of them on the boom pole depending on the situation? (recorder for internal scenes and directional for external?)

  • guys, don't make the thread opener insecure by beeing know-it-all. He has a very limited budget and the sugested MXL 300 will cover a lot of his needs in the beginning. (btw I had the AT-875r and I sent it back within 30 days money back period and picked the ME66)

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev It's not just a bunch of bull. True condensers tend to be better than electrets. It was my mistake thinking the lower price AT mics were True condensers. (see post above)

    I still stand by my suggestion of an AT-875r as a good all rounder. It will outperform that MXL 300 model with the long tube in an indoor situation and perform nearly as well outdoors. Most "pros" don't use shotguns indoors because of the phasing from the tube from wall reflections.

    A good review on several mikes including AT-875r:

    http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html

    There are also some discussion on PV about using this mic directly into GH2. (I personally recommend spending the money for a preamp or seperate sound recording device).

  • @balazer You are correct

    for difference between "electret" and "true" see:

    http://shure.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/731/~/difference-between-electret-condenser-and-true-condenser-microphones

    from Audio Technica's website on AT-875r:

    "Fixed-charge back plate, permanently polarized condenser"

    since it is fixed charged then it is electret. It is the 4000 series mics that are "true condensers".

    I hang my head in shame.....

  • I am not impressed with MXL mics. For similar pricing get a Audio-Technica which are true condenser mics (not electret).

    So, you are not impressed with that? And why all this bullshit with "true condenser" ? MXL mike is same "permanently polarized condenser" mike.

    Issue is sensitivity, AT has 31.6 mV/Pa, MXL has 45mV/Pa.

    If you are going to be semi-pro you need multiple mics: shotguns, pencil cardiods, lavs, etc. to provide best recording for a variety of situations.

    In future, yep, but best idea is starting small. And one shotgun is absolutely enough for beginning.

  • Not sure what you mean by "true condenser", but the AT875R is an electret condenser microphone.

  • I am not impressed with MXL mics. For similar pricing get a Audio-Technica which are true condenser mics (not electret). For a very capable all rounder (indoor and out) I'd go with a AT-875r which can be had at a street price for $160. It has excellent sensitivity but does have a broader pickup than longer tubes. The short tube allows you to use indoors without alot of the phasing you get with the long interference tube mics. You will need phantom power from your recorder though. (A good idea anyway since phantom power usually results in better mic performance from most manufacturers.)

    If you are going to be semi-pro you need multiple mics: shotguns, pencil cardiods, lavs, etc. to provide best recording for a variety of situations.

    I'd second what @Vitaliy_Kiselev said about a boom pole! Close overhead mic placement makes a world of difference compared to even the best mic mounted on camera.