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4K Black Magic Production Camera, raw, $2495 now
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  • igorek7igorek7

    Meanwhile, here is another professional video camera head with 4K(3840×2160)/60p real time video out Lens control for IRIS and focus (Micro Four Thirds lens only) by Astro: http://www.astrodesign.co.jp/english/product/ah-4413_ap-4414_am-4412

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @igorek7

    Yep, but not cheap and not suitable for film shooting.

  • fatpigfatpig

    I suggested to buy this cam for film university today, and our, well, mostly slightly uninformed technician, who makes decisions sadly, said: "we cant use it. global shutter produces trails" - you know, artifacts like when your lcd screen is too cold.

    Now, he insists that this is true and that he knows it from some convention here in germany with many professionals. I found nothing of the sorts online. Can Anyone point me to any Info on this device he might have meant?

    To me it just seems he makes stuff up. Thoughts?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    To me it just seems he makes stuff up. Thoughts?

    You are correct here.

    Just ask him for specific reference. Not "some convention".

  • MeierhansMeierhans

    How hard can it be to build a mount right in front of the sensor and sell the adapters to several other mounts for good money?;+)

    @shian 3D printing is indeed a hidden revolution. The day will come when we will be even able to print out things like mounts that need to fit 1/100 mm (at least for proper focus mark matching). From my experience 3D printing is still fighting with 1/10 mm if you stay in the affordable hobby price class.

  • WhiteRabbitWhiteRabbit

    The 4K Astro has me confused. A 1.25 inch sensor, assuming horizontal results in 31.75mm. I am not sure how much of that is the effective sensor size? The BMPC 4K sensor is promoted to have an effective sensor size of 21.12mm x 11.88mm (Super 35). Which leads me to question, with micro four thirds mount (MFT) on the Astro, will the diameter of the MFT mount be wide enough to realise the effective sensor size when mounting a lens, such as using a MFT mount adapter to accept an S35 lens? If so, then perhaps a 4K BMPC with micro four thirds mount (MFT - M4/3) would be useful for those of us wanting use an adapter to mount lenses that can not be adapted from EF mount? I was under the impression that the MFT mount's diameter on a 4K BMPC would not realise the effective S35 sensor of the camera, which makes me question what is the deal with the Astro and why MFT mount? I am confused here. Anyone?

  • igorek7igorek7

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev I agree, it is expensive, and it is not really a field camera but I don't see why it wouldn't be used in studio broadcasting. Why I posted it? I think, I'd prefer the modular concept and the MFT sensor/mount.

    @WhiteRabbit I think they mean the 1/1.25 inch sensor, which --I guess-- is based on the UDTV2 sensor by Aptina http://www.imagesensors.org/Past%20Workshops/2009%20Workshop/2009%20Papers/071_paper_nakamura_aptina_udtv.pdf

    4.2 µm pixels, 4112x2168 effective pixels give us 17.3mmx9.1mm effective sensor size.

    Here is the videos produced with Astro 4K: http://www.youtube.com/user/astro4k

  • WhiteRabbitWhiteRabbit

    @igorek7, thank you for your feedback. The BMCC with MFT mount has an active sensor area of 15.81mm x 8.88mm, so the 4K Astro at 17.3mmx9.1mm seems within range. I am looking at some of the sample Astro footage in 1080p which looks rather detailed, however, YouTube compression is also an issue I must factor.

  • kavadnikavadni

    @johnbrawley

    Do you expect to shoot with this camera in the near future?

  • hankhank

    hmmm why doesn t bm go for e-mount?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    hmmm why doesn t bm go for e-mount?

    I am sure that with time they will :-)

  • Brian202020Brian202020

    @hank @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    If they eventually go EF-M you could add the upcoming rumored Canon "Speed Booster" like focal reducer with electronic contacts. You could have a full frame look from your EF lenses with tap to focus, image stabilization, and the "IRIS" button would work.

    EOS-M rumor with Canon focal reducer: http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/07/the-next-eos-m-cameras-cr1/

  • danyyyeldanyyyel

    No sample video 2 weeks before supposed launch???

  • hankhank

    @Brian202020 ef-m isn t the way to go in my opinion.e-mount is phsyically superior which is good when useing serious super35 lenses.plus focal reducers will soon be availbe for all sensors smaller then FF with various mounting options.plus 4k raw sounds like u want too use this cam with all manual lenses most of the time anyway.

  • OedipaxOedipax

    @danyyyel, heavy emphasis on the word "supposed" at this point, I would think.

  • danyyyeldanyyyel

    @Oedipax Yes I am less and less optimistic about this one. The pocket perhaps might have a better chance because it is based largely on the BMCC 1 technology. The second reason would be that the production 4k camera image quality does not hold up that much. From the sensor speculation, the 4k sensor in the production cam is only able to do 10-11 stop of DR natively. Blackmagic has put so much emphasis on the filmic dynamic range of the BMCC, that it would really look like a set back for them.

  • CTheEsrevinuCTheEsrevinu

    Considering there are only 3 stops that retains details and up to 5-6 stop max you can use, I don´t see the point of having 100 range of dynamic range. 10 is already very useful. I can see the point of having raw, 4k, global shutter, 13 stops, crystal clear zeiss, but that´s not going to dramatically improve your film quality. It´ll eventually save your life in some situation if you took bad take or whatever. But honestly 2k, rolling shutter, 10 stops, conversion prores 4:2:2 let you enough material to work with but it may indeed not save your life in some situation if you did a bad take.

    What´s interesting with this camera IMO is that it allows filmakers who can´t afford high end camera to train with a cheaper one that offers almost everything and maybe help them to make up their mind with what 4k can offers in terms of possibility (like cropping and make some pan from a still shot or greatly help with 2d/3d compositing). It´s not a revolution, it just allows more possibilities and I am sure it is good for that.

  • jazzroyjazzroy

    They cannot delay too much, they almost ruined their reputation with original BMCC delay!

    Anyway, I pledge for E-mount like many others: shortest flange and adapters for all lenses, from simple ones to electronic to boosters.

  • danyyyeldanyyyel

    Give me everyday a 1080p 13-14 stop DR camera to any 10 stops 4K camera. Sharpness is overrated. I read on a forum the other day someone saying something so true. He said that in 5 years when we will all have 4 k camera, everybody will be discussing about diffusion filters to soften the image like cinematographers have been doing for ages with film.

    What do you think people will learn with more pixel??? As a photographer with a Nikon D800, in normal use the D800 does not bring me anything in normal size prints. Where it makes a difference compared to my 12 megapixel d300 is its DR. Blown out sky or heavily crushed shadows are always visible from 2 to 36 megapixel.

  • Brian202020Brian202020

    Give me everyday a 1080p 13-14 stop DR camera to any 10 stops 4K camera.

    +1

  • hankhank

    @danyy yel just not true all depends on screen size

  • Ian_TIan_T

    I saw in a recent video interview with a BlackMagic rep (might be on here somewhere) that the dynamic range for this camera is 12 stops.

  • philiplipetzphiliplipetz

    @Ian_T No one really knows. John Brawley said that it will be lower than 12. It all depends on final tune.

  • danyyyeldanyyyel

    @hank and at what screen size we are you talking? Never in my life until now looking at big cinema screen did I see a pixel. Believe I have tried and was never bothered about 2k display. I remember when people where claiming how good Skyfall looked in 4k, to be told that it was done on the 2.7k Alexa.

    Now I am sure that 4k will be better than 2k (except for human faces) but it will be only marginal. While ugly blown highlights in clouds and sky, with dark crush shadows on human faces etc will look bad from yesterdays 20 inch CRT TV to Big cinema screen.

  • danyyyeldanyyyel

    Yes, when Brawley was questioned he said he thought it was lower than 12, he did not want to commit more than that.

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