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Ninja HDMI Firmware Update
  • alcomposeralcomposer
    Finally Atomos have updated the Ninja Firmware - now it can playback full quality (within the resolution of the screen).

  • 28 Replies sorted by
  • ButtButt
    @alcomposer
    thanks!
    The use of the Ninja for the GH2 useful
  • sdbestsdbest
    Is it still true that the HDMI output from the GH2 remains "crippled" and is not suitable for recording to the Ninja?
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    @sdbest

    Yes, it is.
  • Brian202020Brian202020
    Until there is a way to fix the crippled HDMI output, any external recording device is not suitable for professional use.
  • Vincent_PereiraVincent_Pereira
    There is that avisynth workaround that has a huge thread over at dvxuser.
  • ButtButt
    @Vitaliy_Kiselev @Brian202020
    thanks - I buy to time no Ninja
  • Brian202020Brian202020
    @Vincent_Pereira
    True but unless things changed since I last visited the thread, the time and effort it takes to do this to many clips doesn't make it efficent enough to use in a profenssional situations.
  • Ian_TIan_T
    It all depends on the individual.
  • Ralph_BRalph_B
    @ Brian202020

    Nonsense - the process can be entirely automated with batch processing.
  • AriaAria
    I'd be willing to go the GH2 Atomos Ninja route. I think as time goes on it will get better as users perfect the process.
  • brianlucebrianluce
    As far as I'm concerned, HDMI recording isn't viable until someone comes up with a good way to secure the HDMI cabling to the GH2. I haven't found a viable solution yet, the slightest movement breaks the signal. I've ordered 4 different cables and all suck.

    As far as Ralph's script, there's a blog somewhere that has good step by step and it's actually not too bad. Cabling still seems like a big problem though.
  • alcomposeralcomposer
    Hdmi (If possible) will be the only solution for the GH2 and 4:2:2. Many cameras are now using HDMI as a means of recording & monitoring. We simply have to find the best solution.

    @brianluce- it sounds like your HDMI port may have issues- I have used them without these issues at all. Other than that- bumping cameras when recording doesn't normally create the best aesthetic effect anyway.. :D

    Just started this thread because the Ninja was really not working at all in playback mode- and now it does... (if only it also allowed playback to external monitor... ! ) well- for the price - ! (other than that I don't know why there is an iPhone in the picture... ??! Any ideas??)
  • brianlucebrianluce
    @alcomposer
    No, I've got 3 GH2 bodies. They're all the same, it is a flimsy, cheap consumer interface. If you're doing nature videos or very static studio stuff, you might be able to get away with it. But I often use my GH2's for paid gigs and that connection isn't adequate for a work camera. When you're on the clock, you can't risk it. Cameras get bumped all the time, tripods picked up and moved, crewmembers bump me, I bump the camera and with that connection, your signal disappears! Not flash on and off, it's gone! For the HDMI to be viable in typical professional or indie application, there will have to be a solution to reinforce that weak link. Maybe there's something out there already. I would think someone will come up with it, or even just a badass mini hdmi with a wicked 90 degree turn that hugs the body, with curly cable. I don't know. Sure hope so, because I think HDMI could end up being the GH2's killer app. External recording totally transformed my EX3. It's really the shit -- especially if you can simultaneously record to SD card for redundancy.

    I'm a GH2 koolaider, I love the thing, but the complaints about its ergonomics and build quality are valid and no where is that more apparent than that freaking HDMI port.


  • alcomposeralcomposer
    @brianluce
    What did you think of the 'glue' idea? Viable? (at least it won't come out!)

    I respect that you have found this issue- its just that I haven't really discovered this shortfall... can anyone else give their feedback for HDMI connector issues? And what would be the solution? (industrial HDMI port?)

    Have you tried a port adaptor? (attached)
    http://www.macfixit.com.au/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=1835

    They call it a: port saver: This Port Saver helps to put less stress on the internal ports of your devices. Very snug fit which will help to prevent HDMI connection problems of having cables come loose. Micro-HDMI Male (Type D) to HDMI Female (Type A).
    Large-Product-Image-for-Micro-HDMI-Male-(Type-D)-to-HDMI-Female-(Type-A)-Port-Saver-Adapter.jpg
    640 x 480 - 64K
    Micro_HDMI_adapter_90_degree.jpg
    620 x 738 - 48K
    33264826-2-200-0.gif
    200 x 150 - 12K
  • brianlucebrianluce
    I'll give that a try! Thanks!

    Btw, I have an idea that maybe can solve the problem and make some member here into a legend on par with even V himself. Somehow fabricate an Mini HDMI plug that also plugs into the AV OUT, which is just below the HDMI port. Both ports are recessed from the body so it's not too hard to imagine a reasonably robust connector. Of course, the idea is the AV OUT plug would stabilize the flimsy HDMI connection. Hope it wouldn't need firmware diddling to plug in to both ports simultaneously.

    I for one was captivated by the locking HDMI port on that new monitor recently reviewed here. If we could just get something like that on the camera body...
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    @brianluce

    Just get TrusMT cage, they have HDMI lock on best version.
    On monitor side you can get Ruige, they also have HDMI lock.
  • alcomposeralcomposer
    +1 TrusMT cage... + Cage makes GH2 look like Red! ;)
  • brianlucebrianluce
    @V and al
    Yeah, I thought of that too, it's probably easiest way, although I've always insisted to myself I'd NEVER buy a cage. Never say never when it comes to DSLR video gear.
  • Brian202020Brian202020
    @Ralph_B
    Ok I see that. Processing footage in this way may work, and it's an amazing feat, but it's not ready for everyday use. It needs a foolproof GUI that is secretly running everything blind behind the scenes. I imagine Avisynth can be very intimidating to the average person. A professional Cinematographer isn't always computer literate. For instance what if there is a problem and the person running Avisynth can't troubleshoot it? It needs to be a GUI that you can simply add one file or one folder of files and hit a "Process footage" button. It just needs to be easier in order for it to be deemed safe for all.
  • alcomposeralcomposer
    @Brian202020

    There is also quite a few 'black magic' tricks that are going on in the Avisynth plugin that the average user may not be aware of: for example 4:2:2 is generated by smashing it down to 4:2:0- then blurring the red channel to get 4:2:2, also the cadence issue is not 3-2 pulldown- it is totally irregular - there is no way of predicting which frame comes next, (plus its interlaced- so simply deinterlacing simply makes mush).
    The way the Avisynth plugin has dealt with this is to 'search' for copied frames, then deleting them. This is why there is a threshold setting in the script- set it too high- and it deletes frames that are almost similar- too low- and it may keep copied frames...

    This is the way that I understand the Avisynth solution- (for 24p) the 50i one is a bit of a mess currently I believe...

    If anyone has anything to add- please chime in...
  • Ralph_BRalph_B
    @Brian202020 and @alcomposer

    Guys, you seriously do not understand how the process works. I really don't want to go into a point by point rebuttle, except to say that the process gives you the highest quality picture currently available from the GH2, and is indeed practical in a production environment.
  • alcomposeralcomposer
    @Ralph_B

    Hi, I am very interested in learning if I am mistaken there is no issue taken. Please inform us if there is any issues with what has been discussed. I have sent HDMI footage of the GH2 to the developer of JesDeinterlacer- it was his belief that there were major issues with the footage- possibly not fixable in post. 50i was found to drop one of the fields about every second- while 24p had cadences all over the place. (it was debatable if the chroma issue was indeed an issue...

    I have looked at the Avisynth script- the area that 'repairs' chroma is utilizing some dv style chroma repair function.

    Ralph- if you can shed light on this- maybe we can all understand more.
    As for practical,.. I suppose 'anything' could be practical that is sent to post production.

    I don't however believe that having to 're-encode' and 'repair' every file is especially that practical at all however- considering that depending on the image- you may need to change the variables of the avisynth, (or is this wrong as well?) Please inform us! :)
  • Ralph_BRalph_B
    @ alcomposer

    Here's the situation as I see it at this point in time. Since VK has succeeded in hacking the GH2, hopefully the HDMI will be fixed and the Avisynth process won't be necessary. So, unless you have a burning need to record HDMI today, just chill and wait.

    But, in answer to your questions: No, you don't have to change thresholds for different clips - that was for research and development. The thing people must understand is the process is fundamentally a 3:2 pulldown removal with compensation for the GH2's quirks. People have been removing 3:2 pulldown for years with no complaints about it being impractical in production.
  • alcomposeralcomposer
    @Ralph_B

    People have looked at the stream from the HDMI- and personally- if it was only 3:2 with a few quirks that would be fine, my issue is that there are tones of frames just thrown in for fun... Obviously if VK is able to repair this functionality- then there will probably still be a pull down removal- (or maybe not?) but at least it will be 3:2 uniform.

    Cheers
  • HaznaHazna
    If hdmi gets fixed this is what I am getting:
    http://www.sounddevices.com/products/pix.htm
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