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  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    EU politic puppets lately look so fun.

    First, they kind of forgot who turned countries producing most of required consumer goods into Chinese main market

    Second, they now openly tell that they want to fully dismantle welfare.

    Third, they also do it indirect opening countries to legal and illegal immigration.

    Fourth. They also make taxes unsuitable for any real business producing anything with less than 200% margin (other sources tell about 400% margin required to survive in France).

    And final. Who the hell told them that they need to make people compete with everyone in the world? Implementing such system in developed countries just mean huge drop in income and life level (accompanied by same huge rise of elites income and life level).

  • 26 Replies sorted by
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Btw, good article about real credit role

    http://www.marxist.com/marx-keynes-hayek-and-the-crisis-of-capitalism-part-three.htm

  • johnnymossvillejohnnymossville

    The goal of the elites is to get as many people dependent on "The System" as possible. That dependency, whether it's debt, taxes, social programs, public infrastructure, etc,.. makes mobility and freedom of movement harder or nearly impossible because now much of your day is spent feeding the monster. When you depend on, or are indebted to "the man" or any other group of people, you are a slave. Many times this dependency is sold to us through the allure of socialism and safety. It's for the common good after all, right?

  • agoltzagoltz
    Who the hell told them that they need to make people compete with everyone in the world?

    F.A. Hayek and later Milton Friedman: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443995604578002432460754000.html

    With a little help from their disciples at MIT: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323717004578157152464486598.html

  • svartsvart

    I dislike how a lot of folks try to apply the term "capitalism" to the USA. I wish it was capitalism. It's really cronyism with the veil of capitalism. Instead of free markets, we have companies and politicians working together to try to make as much money from everyone else at the expense of freedom of choice.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @agoltz

    Nope. In fact, if you carefully check books, reality and logic you'll get proper answer - greed of capitalist.
    Outsourcing, moving manufacturing, bringing cheap illegal immigrants workforce, implementing global competition - all are for his advantage. Yep, it is against common good (even common good of all capitalists).

    @agoltz @johnnymossville

    It is hard to tell you, but so called "freedom of choice", "free markets" are impossible today, and only result in huge issues.

  • DazzaDazza

    Capitalism in all it's forms is flawed because it is based on the negative drive of greed, over and above longterm wellbeing of the greater environmental system. Citizens, real people are abducating their power, the power of their governments whom are their representatives; to humongous corporations. Just look at what is happening with the TPPA and other similar legislation that is going through at the moment.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Capitalism in all it's forms is flawed because it is based on the negative drive of greed, over and above longterm wellbeing of the greater environmental system.

    Btw, capitalism is also based on nature. And on how monkeys (in their human form) are driven by it's laws and usual goals (food, home, etc).

  • stoneystoney

    Supernatural capitalism!!!!

  • DazzaDazza

    There is a difference between survival and greed. Greed is not the primary driving force in nature, it is balance.

    When you have an animal that is capable of destroying the whole plant, you'd hope their primary driving motive is a bit better than greed. This is our test, is humanity capable of evolving and thus surviving? I have no idea, but I know we're going to find out in our lifetimes

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    This is our test, is humanity capable of evolving and thus surviving?

    It is capable, but it is very hard to keep this. :-) Masses are very prone to return to nature laws.

  • brianlucebrianluce

    And final. Who the hell told them that they need to make people compete with everyone in the world? Implementing such system in developed countries just mean huge drop in income and life level (accompanied by same huge rise of elites income and life level).

    What do you mean? Is the EU telling its people to work for 3rd world wages and 60 hour work weeks? Or just that public education should not lag that of other countries? What's this mean?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @brianluce

    It is just rhetorical question :-)

    All that it talks about is that capital around all the world in pushing working people towards global concurrency - more immigrants, smaller wages, reduction of social support.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Same charts again

    image

    Via: http://www.reuters.com/subjects/income-inequality/washington

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    image

  • magnificomagnifico

    @VK, you said:

    "It is hard to tell you, but so called "freedom of choice", "free markets" are impossible today, and only result in huge issues."

    I wont say that. Imagine you get one entity stronger than an other one. Now analyze business between these 2 entities. For the stronger one "freedom of choice", "free markets" doesn't apply. For the weaker one, yes it does apply. You see what I mean? That is state capitalism.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    For the stronger one "freedom of choice", "free markets" doesn't apply. For the weaker one, yes it does apply. You see what I mean? That is state capitalism.

    Nope, it is just simple capitalism. Whole idea that state capitalism is improper and all troubles come from state interferance (Austrian vew) is Level 3 Delusion according to my classification (Level 1 being idea that you need to elect other leader or change ruling party - common to >80% of people, Level 2 being that you need to make or participate in new proper party and using democratic election win and all will change - common for below 15%).

  • magnificomagnifico

    VK, "state interferance" (that bothers companies) is a myth; all social democracies are state capitalism. States and private companies are hand in hand. That means private companies use power of state to attack other markets. The weakest one are those where rules of liberalism ("freedom of choice", "free markets") apply. That means in one part you have power (there, the rules doesn't apply) and in the other part you have the "free" liberal target.

  • magnificomagnifico

    That means, if you have a local protected market of bananas in your place, I will first impose "freedom" to your market. Then I will export cheap bananas to your place. If you have something to sell me in return and if my country does production of this stuff, I will tax you ...I make a promise, you will eat my bananas :-)

    That is why I said, free markets still exist. And as far as power is concerned there is no issues.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @magnifico

    You are just describing modern economic colonies, most of the countries, in other words. Btw most important goods are not bananas - it is patents and copyright, main goals of modern WTO.

  • magnificomagnifico

    hmm, ALENA, GATT, WTO...all the same. No more bananas? Ok lets talk about patents, etc. Same power, same people, same mechanism. If I have an edge I impose. If not I retract. Banana, patents, all the same :-)

  • MirrorManMirrorMan

    Guys, all this will be history by Saturday when we enter the 14th Baktun, a new age of peace, love and unity. Take the day off tomorrow and meditate. Channel all your money and visions to Vitaly so he can hack the GH3 and... oh, wait that's a bit off topic.

    Back to Olde Europe where I like to ask my Greek and Roman friends what its like now that their civilizations have been in decline for a few thousand years. Generally they're ok with it and seem to enjoy good wine and food more than the northerners and their American cousins who obsess over work, guilt and stress management.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Generally they're ok with it and seem to enjoy good wine and food more than the northerners and their American cousins who obsess over work, guilt and stress management.

    Did you try to ask Iraq citizens? They also had big and very advanced ancient civilization.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Ok lets talk about patents, etc. Same power, same people, same mechanism. If I have an edge I impose. If not I retract. Banana, patents, all the same :-)

    Nope, it is not the same :-) You still need to grow each banana. Not the same with copyright and patents. :-) To enforce this two things much more advanced system is required.

  • magnificomagnifico

    you are right, patent is not a good it is just a part of the mechanism in the power side...even if now patent has got its own price and value.

    btw banana and patent all the same, because both are used for coercition. They both are a tool for the rich...to get richer and make the poor poorer left without plantation and without means to make devices freely

  • magnificomagnifico

    btw i hope you did get my idea that free market is still there and it is an issue for the poor only.

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