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NEED HELP to find the best (set of) Settings for my Project
  • MetaControlMetaControl

    Hi guys!

    Once again I am pondering a decision to which I would like to inquire on this forum's awesome knowledge of all things GHack2 related.

    So what is this all about? You see, I am in pre-production for a no budget webseries called JÄSØN (http://creativemonkeys.org/jason/), a satire about a failing wannabe serial killer klutz. The style I am going for is grimy dark and dusky narrative. A lot of Se7en and 8mm. The first episode has a long low steadicam shot going through several rooms of Jäsøn's trashy apartment, showcasing his failed and broken life. There are moments of serenity, when light breaks through barred windows and plays with dust in its path, there are many dark corners and an overall low saturated, mid/hard contrast range and a wicked eeriness I want to achieve. Then there is a low light scene in a bathroom with flickering fluorescence light, and one ultra slow motion moment.

    Our DoP will light it properly, I have no doubts, but I would like to have the proper Hack for the right shot prepared. I thought about getting a couple of cheap and slow SD cards and store different hacks on them and use them on set as we need them.

    But here is my problem: My DoP is not familiar with the GH2 - he has a 5D MKII he suggested to use, but I think the GH2 has a nicer film look - and I want to make it as easy for him as I can, by having the best settings ready. And since I am not so good with cameras to understand the finer details as much as many of you do. This is why I am turning to you for help.

    I need a set of 3-5 hacks that I can swap on set when needed, to accomplish the best shots. The premises are:

    Best Quality - The best possible image quality. Is 2k HD MotionJPG an option? Any other suggestion? Film Look - as close to narrative cinema (80/90ies) as possible. I am considering to use anamorphic lenses here and there, so that should work too. Slow Motion and Ultra Slow Motion - I don't mind using 720p and upscale it later for those shots. How much difference is GOP1 and GOP3. Good Low Light - I do have light, so I am not too worried about low light situations, but I might want a shot were we deliberately do not use any light and for that, I would like to be prepared. Equal Quality/Equal Style - All the hacks need to work and/or work together flawlessly. 25FPS - Living in Europe, I have to adjust to the 50Hz issue. This is why I am opting for 25FPS, but IIRC it should work just as well with 24FPS as long as the shutter is set to 50/100 etc. right? [Edit] Greenscreen - For some effect shots, we will use a greenscreen and a good setting for that, to preserve as much color and details as possible, would be great too.

    I am looking forward to your suggestions (including in-camera settings, workflow etc.) and thankful for your help.

    PS: I forgot to mention: I have a 64GB 45MB/s SanDisc Ultra and currently no budget to buy the 95MB/s version, as I have to put the few bucks I have into other things, but spanning is irrelevant for me, as there are no shots that should be longer than 3-4 minutes. Thoughts?

  • 8 Replies sorted by
  • AashayAashay

    Try these and see which appeals to you the best.

    Sedna Aq1 Cluster V6 Golgop13 and Flowmotion.

  • vicharrisvicharris

    Prob shoot it all with Sedna Aq1 and make life easy on yourself. You'll need a fresh battery every time you want to hack the camera and it sound like you might not have that luxury right now.

  • MetaControlMetaControl

    I do have two batteries and they charge fast. There are also no long outside shots planned, so I should be ok changing Settings on set. But I don't have to do it too often, if I plan right. But I need to know what I can use for what.

    Whats a good filmic GOP1 setting for Super Slow Motion (with Twixtor), whats better for greenscreen? One that should be used for action scenes, maybe sacrifice one setting to compensate for something else, more fitting to the given scene. Being prepared to use the best setting for a particular scene, to maximize the production output of the GH2, that is what I would like to achieve. :)

  • MisterJMisterJ

    Hi!

    I'm in the same situation that You are. Doing a film project with 24 FPS for the first time. I'm living in a Europe to - in a PAL land. 50Hz issue is alright as long as you divide shutter like 25/50/100 etc. My props goes to Sedna, Flowmotion and Cluster too!

    What FPS to choose, depends on how much time You have. If it's going to be broadcast in TV in Europe - You must convert it to 25 FPS. In some channels they accept only in 25i (interlaced) formats. But still, You can shoot and edit it 24FPS and do converting later.

    If you have money for fastest SanDisc(95MB/s) 64GB buy it. Sedna and mainly all the best all intra hacks need fastest cards available. Faster card means more reliability in spanning etc.

    Cheers, MisterJ

  • neokooneokoo

    If your DoP knows well how to light for his 5D MKII, its lenses and settings (Magic Lantern etc.), it is worth considering letting him use it as main cam and keep GH2 with reliable hack in reserve for situations he might ask it for.

    High bitrate hacks are in practice quite close to eachother in terms of image quality, especially in controlled light. I'd say as long as you're over 60Mbps and not shooting moving bushes in full focus ;) most important thing is reliability.

    As for low light, if your DoP has a fast lens for his 5D MKII, your production probably has a better low light cam already. GH2 begins to show its limits beyond ISO800, you need an expensive fast lens to get good results in really low light.

    If you're doing web series for Vimeo/Youtube/etc. distribution, the finer aspects of image will be smudged by web codecs anyway. Lighting and grading will be far more noticeable to audience than the exquisite grain that was in original footage.

    That said, GH2 might be good for speedy no-budget shoots because of MFT depth of field. Less need to pull exact focus, less retakes. Full frame in low light can be a pain to focus.

    Just out of curiosity - you have no budget for a 95MB/s SD card, but considering using anamorphic lenses. I don't know about those, are they cheap to buy/rent or do you own them already, so no extra costs?

  • AashayAashay

    @neokoo.. thank god you said that! I thought I was the only one who couldn't find a whole different between patches and I'm not a pixel peeping tom.. So what patch do you personally use that maintains steady above 60mbps bitrate.

  • neokooneokoo

    @Aashay I'm using own patches, no special matrixes etc., just changes to default settings to the extent that my cards (SanDisk 32GB 95MB/s) can handle reliably. I spent about a month testing, settled on 138Mbps GOP3 for 24p, 90Mbps GOP3 for 25p/50p, 66Mbps GOP3 for 30p and 66Mbps GOP5 for 60p, with Q setting forcing to near-constant bitrate. That near-CBR forcing is not technically necessary, in some cases VBR delivers better quality, but I personally prefer CBR-like compression.

    For extra demanding work I have a patch with 24p/25p/30p modes set to "proper" GOP1 all-intra. It doesn't get used much, because I usually need to shoot in 25p or 50p, and 25p GOP1 footage from GH2 doesn't work correctly in all programs. GOP3 on the other hand works well in all I've tried, so I prefer it for workflow reasons.

    I did some pixel peeping initially with patches like Driftwoods, but soon felt that with big enough bitrate, practical image quality would be better improved with careful contrast settings, lighting and exposure more than codec tweaks. This is because many important settings of encoder still cannot be changed, and IMO at this point in hack development no "superpatch" can bring more than marginal improvement to some specific usage case.

  • MetaControlMetaControl

    Thanks for the replies and sorry for my own late one (had a long week of shooting - not related to this topic)

    My thought were, that I would use the GH2 over the MKII because we plan to light our scenes properly and it seems to me, the overall subjective image looks and feel is much more filmic and organic on the GH2. I am more after the image details and overall feel than the low light usability. But than again, I might use the GH2 for the action bits (less rolling shutter etc.) and the MKII for dialogs etc... Also, the aliasing of the MKII for greenscreen is terrible. I think the GH2, with a good sharp image should do a much better job.

    I am not planning to buy an anamorphic lens, but I might be able to borrow one. There is also a filter I wanted to try out for that . It is not that I absolutely can't afford the better SD, I am just wondering whether I really need it for my project right away, because I would like to spend the money on other things first, having a very constrained budget. So if I shoot short takes, I might not need any spanning and thus I shouldn't have to worry about it, right? I will aim for it anyway, but right now, I have to go for the most important things first...

    @neokoo would you mind sharing those settings for us to give them a try?

    Several of my questions are still unanswered, so I hope you guys keep you ideas, thoughts and opinions on these matters coming. Thanks for taking the time!

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