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Red Epic and Scarlet pricing reduction
  • http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?88074-Attitude-adjustment

    Now… here is the new pricing:

    5K EPIC-X Brain- $19,000

    5K EPIC-X Monochrome Brain- $20,000

    5K EPIC-M Brain- $24,000

    5K/4K Scarlet Brain- $7,950

    4.5K RED ONE M-X Battle Tested- $4000 (includes CF or SSD recording module). The RED ONE is End of Life. Battle tested is all that will be available from here on out.

    Due to high anticipated volumes, plan on extended response and processing times.

    Dragon sensor upgrade is not included for any EPIC system purchased at the new pricing going forward.

  • 115 Replies sorted by
  • 4.5K RED ONE M-X Battle Tested- $4000 <<<<---- amazing

  • Accessories...

  • The largest bomb in Cinema History was just dropped with battle tested Red One-MX 4.5K RAW starting at $4K!!!

    If you think of it PURELY from a collector's standpoint, some of those cameras were used on major motion picture productions... I wonder if they'll keep the original Serial numbers or issue new ones?

  • "some of those cameras were used on major motion picture productions" And lots of pornos as well.

  • We'll see at the Sony response and also at new players that will emerge at raw market.

  • Interesting times ahead..checked my RED wish list shopping cart, even with camera price drop it's approx $25K to kit up a Scarlet with drives, cage and required accessories for commercial production, so it will be very interesting to see what the Sony F5 pricing ends up in comparison.

  • Price-wise, remember RED pressured Sony and Canon First last year with the Epic and Scarlet, and now again Red just set THE NEW STANDARD entry point for creating 4K RAW UltraHD content at under $10,000USD !!!

    Anybody see anything wrong with 4K RAW starting at under $10K? Technically, few can even do it right now. Hell, RED can barely even do it...

    I don't think anybody really believes Sony, ARRI, Canon or anybody else was going to do 4K RAW this or next year near these pricepoints wihout Red?

    I love what the BMCC is doing, and we need a hell of a lot more 4K RAW competition ASAP!

    I'm delighted we have insane choices at these new pricepoints, and am looking forward to renting the new EPIC-X at drop bottom rental rates...

    In the end, there's going to be a lot of swearing going on in Japanese and German language tomorrow morning!

  • @NickBen

    Do not worry, this time Sony outplayed this guys. Pushed them to announce price reduction and after this did not provided the prices. So, they can properly position their cameras eliminating Red as major competition.

  • Sony still doesn't have 4:4:4 at this price point, and their sensors are for shit. So I don't think it was pressure from Sony as much as an added reason to NOT overlook that Sony's codec on the F5 and F55 is still just 4:2:2

    AND

    Sony still doesn't have an upgrade model in place. RED's trade-in and "Obsolescence is obsolete" model is still light years beyond the rest of the industry's planned obsolescence.

    With the Meizler Module you now have DNxHD and ProRes capability ALONGSIDE RAW, and a ton of other options.

    RED has their problems, sure, but they constantly push things FORWARD. And in some cases, sideways - away from the greedy corporate model of companies only interested in advancing technology in so much as it improves profits... not so that it improves the medium.

    Jannard (a camera enthusiast) already had "fuck you money". So RED was not a way to make a fortune, but a way to make better cameras. This is why I'm a big RED supporter. Sure the Alexa is a nice camera, and ProRes right to disk was awesome, but RED has it now, too... They didn't balk at introducing it to their own system for pride, it was a good idea, makes workflow easier, so we add it to the system. We need a $13,000 module to do it (which does a shitload of other stuff as well) and we still have a system that costs less than Alexa and does more, and they continue to move forward.

  • VK, are you kidding or biased?? You can have the camera 'The Social Network' was shot with for $4K. 'The Man With The Iron Fist' will open in cinemas soon, brand new, and it was still shot on that camera. $4000. That's just a little more than the oh so great Canon 5DmkIII.

    What else do they have to do to make you satisfied?? ;)

    Btw, lets first see how those Sony's perform before talking about death of RED (ridiculous).

  • Sony still doesn't have 4:4:4 at this price point, and their sensors are for shit. So I don't think it was pressure from Sony as much as an added reason to NOT overlook that Sony's codec on the F5 and F55 is still just 4:2:2

    image

    As for 4K, you just can't make 444 from sensors. Only 422 or use raw.

    As for "their sensors are for shit" it is very strange claim.

    RED's trade-in and "Obsolescence is obsolete" model is still light years beyond the rest of the industry's planned obsolescence.

    I do not see it this way. It is very unhandy, and very pricey.

    So RED was not a way to make a fortune, but a way to make better cameras. This is why I'm a big RED supporter.

    I am not Red supporter, in fact I think that the sooner company will be out of the market, the better.
    Companies with real modular cameras and ones using standard storage will dominate.

    We need a $13,000 module to do it (which does a shitload of other stuff as well) and we still have a system that costs less than Alexa and does more, and they continue to move forward.

    Yet, it is still $13000 module even if you make some pretty words to cover it :-)

  • the F65 is their flagship, and it looks like garbage. I've still yet to see anything from that camera that looks like film. It all looks like 4K high res video. I have hard time believing that their lesser sensors are going to do any better)

    Sony, Canon, and Panasonic all have the same problem. They are all FAT. Their framework and infrastructure don't allow them to change direction very quickly. Which is why it took this long for them to adopt and develop anything resembling a modular approach to their cameras. And they need SO MUCH MONEY to sustain that infrastructure that they can't price their products in a competitive manner. They are big, fat, slow, and will get crushed by more nimble competition.

    Those battle tested M-X's that are now 4 grand, were trade-ins for Epics. If the other companies want to compete with RED they need to adapt. I'm done buying cameras that will be obsolete in less than a year. For BMCC and the others to get my money, they better learn and learn quick that RED has the best model in this regard. I should be able to upgrade until the technology changes so vastly that I have to trade in my camera and buy the next leap forward, and then the cycle continues... That was a promise RED made form the beginning: NO MORE PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE.

    adapt or die

  • Exactely Shian, Sony just doesn't manage to get a non videoish image out of their cameras. Specs and shit are one thing, color science another and that's where Arri beats everyone's ass which is why it's the no.1 commerial ads camera no matter what the competition does. Red's can look filmic too with a bit more work and REdcode is fantastic to work with. Sony...they are getting the specs together but on the 'image' side they continue to disappoint me.

  • What do you guys think a used RED one M-X body will be worth on ebay now that the price has totally bottomed out. I am now keen to look at one of these to use in TVCs and Chroma shoots..

  • How much will the axs-r5 be?

  • I will say that I think this is very cool on RED's part, but I also think it takes A LOT of work to make the footage look not so "crunchy". Soderbergh calls it really organic, I don't see it, for the most part...

  • It's raw, and they have a good color science, so it's flexible as hell - it's pretty much up to the user how the footage comes out in the end.

  • NO MORE PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE.

    Whole Red is big planned obsolescence. Huge one.

    Sony, Canon, and Panasonic all have the same problem. They are all FAT. Their framework and infrastructure don't allow them to change direction very quickly. Which is why it took this long for them to adopt and develop anything resembling a modular approach to their cameras. And they need SO MUCH MONEY to sustain that infrastructure that they can't price their products in a competitive manner. They are big, fat, slow, and will get crushed by more nimble competition

    Let's just use proper word - they are big. Not fat.

    Thing is that their size is huge plus.

    Look at the Red cameras internals. They all screams - not enough engineers and not enough skill.

    Today highly integrated LSI and ASICs require very high skill and big number of people. Same goes for sensors.

    This will be the reason for Red going out in the super thin niche market where it'll die in agony.

    Biggest thing that Red supporters ignore is that only two areas prevents wide raw video - interfaces and media.

    Both are catching blazingly fast. Look at BMCC - thunderbolt and stock SSDs.

    Red will be killed by progress in this areas and .. economics, they just could not sustain expenses in the niche they'll be pushed.

  • @stip - theres more to the look than just color. There is merit to how the user implements it, but there is something to be said for what the image lends itself to...

  • I don't follow the logic of assuming that RED won't innovate and refine their electronics. Seems tome that many companies like this that get successful are then able to re-engineer their products and higher better people to work on R&D for future products. Big companies like Sony have more resources, but smaller but successful companies can focus their efforts on key projects and get similar if not better results.

  • Regarding $4k red one, i think they will last for 2-3 weeks in the market, with thousands people that will order the camera. The same people will need to spend minimum $10k more to make them work properly. They are selling old stuff and they will have a sold out soon. After then, they wll have huge money from accessories sold. The game is between Scarlet-Epic against Sony, the red one thing, in my opinion, is just smoke in the eyes.

  • Clearly we are on opposite sides of this issue.

    Some background. I was a big Sony supporter back in the day. I still have my old PD150 for sentimental reasons. I loved the look of their 3 chip cameras. Loved the F900. pleaded for years for them to develop single chip cinema technology - every year at NAB. They turned their noses up at the idea. Can't be done. No need, No desire.

    Then RED comes along and completely changes the game. A single chip 4K camera for less than 100K... way less. At first a lot of scoffing, the product had some problems but eventually they start making major motion pictures with the damn thing, and then Panavision made the Genesis, Arri makes the D21, (then later the Alexa) DSLR's start shooting video, and THEN Sony gets around to making single chip cameras, and they still do a shitty job of it.

    I used to be their biggest fan. I want to like them. But they make really bad decisions... really slowly.