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Is North America the next Middle East?
  • Increased production of energy from a number of sources including deepwater drilling, natural gas exploration and Canada’s oil sands could make North America the next Middle East, according to a new report from Citigroup. (snip)

    Full article: http://www.cnbc.com/id/46804871/Is_North_America_the_Next_Middle_East_for_Energy

  • 51 Replies sorted by
  • dude...there was a plan initiated in the 70's under Nixon. There is more oil sitting under the US than anywhere else in the world combined, and we are SITTING ON IT until the rest of the world has been drained. We import almost all of our natural resources so that when the music stops, we 're the only ones with a chair. Nothing will change this, and everything else you read and see is a smoke screen.

    http://www.lindseywilliams.net/lindsey-williams-the-energy-non-crisis-chapter-17

  • It is very complicated topic requiring big number of charts, references, etc.

    To be short - low gas prices happened not due to market, but due to goverment pressing big investment banks to just give money to gas companies knowing that most of them will never return. Many of companies today are barely afloat, and already knocked for next portions.

    About oil - such thing as general oil does not exist. Most of oil numbers that statistic like to push to poor american people is low quality oil or bituminous sands. Most of such oil has much worse EROI (large portion has prohibitive EROI).

    So, no, America is not next middle east, and yes, America goverment has very good foundations under fighting for resources all across the world breaking all the laws and morale.

  • @shian

    Even if you believe that it's official American policy to sit on "our" continental oil reserves -- no issues of the cost of extraction, the quality of the fossil fuel at issue, supply and demand, etc. -- it would do U.S. citizens no good at all, because U.S. companies would export the better of it -- as they're already doing, and intend to do with new reserves -- and American consumers would pay exactly the same prices that are paid in the rest of the world, based on world-wide supply, even if that supply was limited to North America.

    It doesn't matter where fossil fuels are extracted, unless we intend to nationalize the oil companies, take the profit out of fossil fuel production and keep the lights off in the rest of the world, for lack of fuel (and in that case, to whom do we export all our other products?).

    American oil companies have no more commitment to U.S. national or consumer interests than nationalized Venezuelan oil companies, the Iranians or the Saudis. And as long as private companies own or lease the U.S. land where drilling takes place, it makes far more sense to let other countries destroy their natural resources and use their oil, since we'll be paying exactly the same price anyway. Besides, even if we had 3 Saudi Arabias underneath Texas or Ohio, these companies will never do enough drilling to bring the price down by flooding the market; that would be self-defeating.

  • @jrd

    It wouldn't have anything to do with the government except that oil is denominated in US dollars. I could take an hour to explain why that matters, but instead look it up. It's all tied to debt, and the economy. That's why the Gov isn't really concerned with the national debt. They'll continue to run it up, and when the oil runs out, and they can dictate what currency the oil is denominated in, cancel out all debt to China, Suadi Arabia, etc... they win. They can dictate terms. When you own the most valuable natural resource on earth - when you have a monopoly: You can do whatever the hell you want.

  • @JRD we don't export any oil. The statistically small amount that we "export" is to Canada and that is generally returned to us as gasoline. We do however import the most crude oil in the world, more than a lot of other countries combined. The problem here is that, once again, someone is too busy posing a "USA vs. The World" statement when in actuality most of these oil companies are worldwide conglomerates with little to do with governments other than their lobbying arms stuffing politician's pockets with cash in return for laws that help them control their profits. Just look at Russia and trying to control natural gas production from former Soviet member countries.. I don't think there is a strategic reason for not pumping oil from these wells, I think it's all about control of the profits. Even OPEC has been quoted as saying that they will never let production ramp up so that profits drop ever again. You can forget about 1$ gallons of gasoline again. Hell, you can probably forget about >2.50$/gal gasoline too. Nevertheless, even if someone were to get all of these wells pumping, our refineries are already running at peak levels just to keep up with current production/demand. It would be 10-15 years before more refineries could be brought online to even touch the amount of oil that could be pumped today.

  • "I finally paid off my mortgage and own my house!" LOL no

    That's true. If you doubt, see what happens when you don't pay your property tax.

  • Here's a link to a summary of a workshop at Harvard that featured notable leaders from the scientific community and the energy industry. Their conclusions don't square very well with some of the opinions in this thread.

    While some forecasts for production growth may be too bold, and current natural gas prices may be too low for long run firm profitability, the medium term prospects for the North American energy landscape look strong. Industry has seen remarkable technological breakthroughs, and the pace of R&D and innovation has been increasing. There is still the potential both for consolidation and sharing of current technology and for its application in new and innovative ways.

    http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/files/Shale%20Workshop%20Rapporteur%20Report%20May%202012.pdf

  • @shian

    It's far from an established fact that the U.S. is going to dominate the fossil fuel market and, in any case, the U.S. already dictates the terms of the global order, thanks to its military power and the reliance of developing economies on access to the American consumer market, even when they lend us the money to finance domestic consumption.

    As for $1 gasoline, if Americans paid the true price of gas at the pump -- paid for the government subsidies of the oil industry, the preposterously cheap leasing rates on government land, the military costs of policing the Persian Gulf, the costs of pollution, etc. -- we'd be paying more than they do in Europe. The real "entitlement" in the U.S. is artificially cheap, tax-payer subsidized oil. We currently waste most of it, thanks to the artificially low price, and clean technologies can't compete, because they don't enjoy the same level of subsidy.

  • World is full of Oil. New finds: 260Billion barrels in Israel oil shale. 600 Billion south of Baffin Island.

  • @QuinEtiam

    560trillion barrels. Alpha Centauri .

  • It does not matter where oil is coming from, we will be paying more and more. After all, oil will always go to the highest bidder. It is the oil companies calling the shot, nobody else. Has anyone looked at Exxon's quarterly profits the past 5 years?

  • North America (and South America) is full of natural resources including food cropping. If there is energy/food crisis, this continent is the best place to be.

  • North America (and South America) is full of natural resources including food cropping. If there is energy/food crisis, this continent is the best place to be.

    Primates brain is build in such interesting way that they can talk themselfs into anything. Many believe that they are personally the center of universe.

  • Take a drive through Nebraska and the midwest Vitaliy and then try and tell us the USA isn't rich in farmland.

  • Negative Vitaliy, a planet with a pure diamond core has been found. Enough carbon to fuel Chinese factories for at least a month.

  • GLORIOUS GREAT COUNTRY OF USA! Some people talk as if the US behaviour was something to win a peace nobel price for. Everybody who has ever paid attention in history classes knows how the us fight for ressources and how they even exploited south america, how the united fruit company destroyed democratic goverments in guatemala and installed a dictator who defended their interests. Same in Chile with Pinochet. Here is a superficial wikipedia crash course in history, eventhough its still very very america friendly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company

  • Mirrorkisser, it's naive to think the USA is the only country with a mixed history. It's the way of powerful nations. Japan in Asia, Great Britain everywhere, Germany in Europe, Russia in Afghanistan, Italy , Iran. The list is long. It's what people do to each other. USA has also liberated a lot countries .

  • @mirrorkisser I don't see this as "American" behavior, just the behavior of an American citizen trying to recoup his investment after the Costa Rican government defaulted on promised payments. So essentially it was the Costa Rican government who oversold it's abilities to garner investment into it's country and allowed this to happen, not "Americans". If they had paid as promised then they wouldn't have put themselves into a bad position. This is much like how the banks in the USA oversold their bad mortgages to other groups and allowed the whole industry to damn near fall apart overnight. Primate brains indeed. http://www.ted.com/talks/laurie_santos.html

  • @svart

    So, in your view, if a private American company has a dispute with a foreign government, the U.S. has every right to invade that country, overthrow a democratically elected government, install a dictator, equip his military, and then support him in the civil war which results, because some people don't like living under American-sponsored dictatorships and having their natural wealth stolen by American companies?

    You are aware, of course, that U.S.-supported and funded dictatorships in Latin and South America murdered and tortured hundreds of thousands of people, most of them bystanders? Or whose "crime" was to join a labor union?

    And I gather you would endorse a foreign invasion of the U.S., if a foreign company insisted the U.S. has reneged on its obligations?

  • @JRD I think you missed the point. I spoke specifically on the original incident in which a SINGLE NON-governmental entrepreneur had a dispute with a government of a country in which that government opened itself to being taken advantage of. That government knew full well that they could have said NO and stopped everything right then and there. I don't totally buy that whole paranoid black hat stuff you are claiming happened in this situation, and I especially don't buy that you think it was all backed by the US government. I'll buy that the government of Costa Rica was so desperate to have US investment in order to attempt to pull itself out of 3rd world status that it would have made a deal with the devil himself to make it happen. They obviously and consciously avoided all normal self-preservation measures that a government who had concern for it's sovereignty and/or citizens would have taken, and allowed PRIVATE companies to take advantage of them. Now, concerning your dictator ideas, yes, the USA has had it's hand in some shady governmental dealings in SA but there is absolutely ZERO proof that the influence of the US government had any outcome in their favor through any of these situations. In fact, the evidence is to the contrary because civil unrest in South America is bad for US businesses that invest in that area of the world. But whatever man, this kind of BS conspiracy theory is why people around the world bitch about the USA all the time. The normal citizens of the USA WANT to be friends with everyone in the world but it seems that there is no end to the stories and lies that keep the rifts between us in place.

  • @svart

    yes, the USA has had it's hand in some shady governmental dealings in SA but there is absolutely ZERO proof that the influence of the US government had any outcome in their favor through any of these situations.

    All I can suggest is, you read some history. There is a ton of documentary evidence that U.S. intervention in the region -- including military coups, invasions and propping up of dictators -- achieved distinct political and economic goals of the U.S. Sometime the gains were largely symbolic -- to show other countries what happens if they defy U.S. interests -- but the disastrous consequences of U.S.-sponsored repression are no less real for the native populations. If you go back and read policy papers produced in the 60s and 70s by the U.S. State department, you'll see that this matter is discussed quite openly -- on the need to stifle "bad examples" (meaning countries which take their own path and don't follow U.S. dictates), with military intervention.

    For a guy who claims to hate or distrust government so much -- I thought you were a libertarian? -- you're awfully quick to defend or deny the reprehensible acts of your own government.

  • @JRD I'm not defending my government, I defend the country against defamatory statements that are grounded not in fact, but in personal biases. You have consistently used the term "U.S." in lieu of "US government" or other term to differentiate between the citizenship and the government, and in doing so have essentially claimed that everyone in the US acts the same as our government. Well, that's dishonest and only causes more hate in this world. Yes, I've read the history and heard the stories but attempt is not the same as completion. As I mentioned before, and will restate again, while our government may have attempted bad dealings, there is no proof that any of these resulted in any benefit to the US or the US government at all. It's my opinion that these half assed attempts only came back to bite us in the ass. You are trying hard to "prove" that the USA is a bad place but you are using supposition and hearsay as the backing to your biases, not facts and logic.

  • For a guy who claims to hate or distrust government so much -- I thought you were a libertarian? -- you're awfully quick to defend or deny the reprehensible acts of your own government.

    There are worse places in the world. Genocide isn't part of our history. Bet a lot of members here can't say that about THEIR country. And let's see the hands of those from countries that liberated the death camps.

  • Genocide isn't part of our history.

    Brian, you suddenly changed country today? :-)

  • When did USA commit genocide?