AVCHD: Stable settings

arvidtp

Yeah - I would not say I'm reactionary, I'm just going back to what worked for me for the particular work that i do most often and waiting to see if we can improve later. Now that I have conservative settings I know span when bitrate is driven to the max, and a good setup to test spanning, I'd be happy to test anything anyone with more knowledge than me (ie @Vitaliy_Kiselev, @cbrandin) thinks has a good chance of getting spanning working in 3.62 - or any subsequent update.

Anyhow, Test results are in - 24H @ 36mbits/sec with ptool 3.61 did not span for me. 32mbit seems to be about the max, at least for my SD card.

One thought is to maybe have 24L set so it spans and you could shoot in that normally unless you know the shot will be short, then use 24H, which would be set at a higher bitrate. But maybe this is wishful thinking because 24L and 24H I think need to be within a certain % distance of each other - or is that not the case anymore?

Also just musing - because of AQ and other improvements, potentially the lower bitrate at which clips will span in 3.62 is that same apparent video quality as you get with 32mbits with ptool 3.61? and therefore we're not actually losing anything in 3.62? Just throwing that out there as a possibility.

parkgt

@Vitaly

"Guys, while I am ok and quite used to see reactional approach, you have no reason to use 3.61 for normal GOP."

Wanting spanning and an faster workflow I don't think qualifies as being reactional. I used a GOP of 12 with 3.62 with a Sandisk Extreme class 10 30MB/s SDHC 32GB and did not span and the files were not recognized by PHOTOfun using cbradin's settings suggested on the 16th. I will try the default settings and see if things work better.

Thanks again for advancements!

Butt

@Angry_C

yes - why not: each new Ptools come with insights

proaudio4

Stray>"Also, if you are using a normal GOP, surely setting AQ to 0 is going to produce pretty much exactly the same results as using 3.61 yeah ?"

That would be my guess.
I also agree that AQ4 is absolutely jaw-dropping image quality!

I'm hoping we eventually are able to find a good setting that allows 24H at 66mbps with AQ4.
I'm using this now with 3X settings, but I still need to check if the files span OK. I'm hearing it probably does not. I'm using Sandisk Extreme class 10 30MB/s SDHC 32GB

Angry_C

@Butt,

man kann seine postings auch im Nachhinein editieren;-)

Stray

I'm having no problems with 3.62 with a normal GOP at both 66MB and 48MB as long as I keep the AQ to 1 or 0. I am using a Sandisk Extreme Pro card (which according to the thread on SD cards isn't that great) and I've not had a single write failure, or any problem working with or playing back the footage. I'm happy with what I'm getting, very happy in fact. I am looking forward to the next version of Ptool though, as I have experimented with the AQ set at 4 and it is jaw dropping quality (particularly when it came to grading and CCing it in post). What I'm getting now is better than what I was getting out of 3.61. I guess its very much a case of YMMV. Still its a definite improvement to me, and things will get better, we're all seeing hints of what we could/will get.

Also, if you are using a normal GOP, surely setting AQ to 0 is going to produce pretty much exactly the same results as using 3.61 yeah ?

skyak

OK...now to find one in small town Mexico...ha!!

proaudio4

skyak, yes don;t rule out the card.
The best luck I've had so far is with Sandisk Extreme class 10

Mihuel

@skyak
I think this card but since I'm using Transcend 32GB Class10 and I had no problem with 66Mbits. For 88Mbits camera sometimes froze.

skyak

I was running version 3.61 at 32mbit with no issues at all. Since installing 3.62 with the recommended settings (max 44mbit...no GOP adjustment) I am getting constant card write failures which require battery removal. I have an Accumen Class 10 32GB card. Could be the card..............? I am on vacation right now so I don't have my 3.61 available to revert to.

Butt

>Guys, während ich ok und ganz verwendet werden, um Reaktionskräfte Ansatz sehen bin, haben Sie keinen Grund, auf 3,61 für den normalen GOP verwenden.<<br />
right - full consent
normal GOP is currently the best way

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Guys, while I am ok and quite used to see reactional approach, you have no reason to use 3.61 for normal GOP.

parkgt

I am back to 3.61 also.

While I appreciate all the hard work and advancements being made going to 3.62; the tradeoffs are not worth it for me.

I am not a indie film maker or interested in being on the bleeding edge of bitrate bragging rights. I am just you typical family filmer that wants the best stable settings that span.

I also like being able to use the Panasonic included Photofun software for transferring from the card to the PC. It allows automatic file naming (numbering) that speeds my workflow. None of the files I produced under 3.62 were recognized, while those produced by 3.61 were.

Looking forward to further advances and 3.63.

arvidtp

ptool 3.61 is here: http://arvidtp.net/browse.php?dir=/dropbox/gh2-hack

I don’t have the official zip anymore, so you get my setting files also :) set h is my current conservative setup where spanning seems to work (32mbit max for 1080p24 and 720p). I may test 36mbits tomorrow but tried 44 today with these settings otherwise the same and it didn’t span on my SD card.

sohus

Can someone send me a link to Ptool 3.61?

I was shooting a static scene in low light with a low bitrate it turned out. So it appears that the effective bitrate makes or breaks spanning under 3.62. I read that 3.61 spanned clips of 66mbps -- what changed between them? Can this be fixed by Vitaily in 3.63? I am thinking of reverting to stock for now (with 29 min removal and PAL/NTSC switch).

gong

thanks for tip, Im trying it out.

cbrandin

AQ makes noise more prominent, but it also adds detail to non-noise portions of the image (better gradation). Maybe use a little in camera NR?

Chris

gong

@sam sorry, I compared unhacked and hacked(settings:"a new Setting @cbrandin 1080p/ @Butt 720p B-Frames GOP12"). But I think the noise thing was a question of AQ settings. guess there is a balancepoint where AQ add noise in dark areas, instead of detail, but it may be just a taste question?. (seems like nostalgia filmode adds noise too.)

LukeV

Thanks arvidtp
I might take you up on that.
Luke

killagram

@arvidtp Thanks man, might take ya up on it. I think I still have mine at home though. If I do I'll try and host it.

arvidtp

I know its disheartening to go backwards, but I can send the 3.61 binary to anyone who wants it…

Also @sohus what material were you shooting? If its a scene that does not demand a high bitrate spanning can work.

LukeV

@arvidtp
Thanks for the info. I was going to try lower Mbit setting in ptool 3.62. I had erased the earlier ptool. No looking back just have to wait for the new ptool.
@sohus
Are you getting as good a look compared to the GOP 12? Just asking because of the bug with lower GOPs.

arvidtp

Just as a clarification, I could get spanning to work at 32mbit/sec with 3.62 but only when the scene was pretty static and the average bitrate of the resulting recording was ~22mbit/sec. When I would shoot a tree outside (so leaves filled the whole frame) and the bitrate of the recording was the full 32mbits, that's when spanning would die. And again, maybe my SD card is just crappy (patriot LX 32 GB class 10).

sohus

I just ran a test with Vitaily's recommended settings (those that are in the notes of Ptool) span. The only thing I changed was the GOP (from default 12 to 6). Need to run Streamparser but at least the spanning does work above 32mbit. Needs more testing.

Braamokiev

@killagram

Thanks Man

(And V.K Forerever ;-)

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