Best way for new filmmakers/videographers to break into the business?

RyanPW

So I'm a fresh-out-of-college film maker, absolutely dazed by the prospect of getting into the film industry, or even finding myself an interesting live event videography job that I could use all of my equipment for. I'm living at my rents place, and I'm distraught by the number of in-house corporate jobs looking for easy, cheap labor to create their minute long quick clips for their marketing campaigns. While the pay might be enough to get someone like me through the next year until I build some clout as a video producer, in the back of my mind I feel like I ought to be working with creators and innovators right NOW. I've worked on films before in college, short 5 and 10 minute pieces up to a larger 30 minute piece, I've written scripts small and large, I live to be creative and I even had an internship working a fairly passionless editors job creating simple marketing videos as a Senior last year. And the thing is, I know I'm not the only one. I have tons of friends who are bleakly staring at job sites with people who just aren't going to respond to them seriously, because they don't have any clout yet. It's the economy perhaps, but I know many of you have found a way to lead creative lives that actually pay you for your talents and abilities.

So my question is, to all those who somehow made it passed this terrible stepping stone and for all those who are in my position, what's a stupid graduate like myself supposed to do to break into the film making world? How are we supposed to avoid those mindless editor jobs from corporations that take video for granted?

I figure this can be a place where everyone can glean some very useful information on how to make themselves marketable as well as finding good job sites and other tools for either getting into videography or into the film industry.

ahbleza

In which city do you reside?

rockroadpix

If you're in a large market, go FIND the innovators and creators. There are many production companies that make commercials and they are inhabited with creative people. Some of them do not have creative people. It's a gamble. If you want to go in to film/tv, find a production company that does it. Be prepared to make Starbucks' runs or whatever you might feel is beneath you. (Not saying that you feel that way) It sounds like you want to be a writer/producer type. No job is perfect. The current crop of Millennials or whatever the current generation is called needs to understand this. You want to be creative? Do it on your time. Odds are, NO ONE is going to hire you out of film school (unless your the big stud out of NYU or USC with a film to boot) to get your input on the creative. You are unproven. That's life. My first job in the biz in NY was working at a sound stage in Chelsea. I answered the phone, prepped stages, emptied trash, cleaned the bathrooms and I rarely bitched. However, I met a lot of people through that and was able to move on to free lance PA/crew work in about 9-10 months time. I've produced more than 100 commercials and other projects at this point. I've shot and directed on paying gigs (pretty well paying gigs), so I don't suck at this. No single flowchart works for everyone. You have to follow your instincts and be prepared to swallow some pride. My $.02 ...

bheath

@RyanPW

Your topic is an interesting one to me; that’s why I’m responding. Take what I say with a grain of salt or not.

I’ve been a director/cameraman for over 25 years. Christ in a basket?! I’ve always felt it was part of the job to mentor some people along the way - and I have. I tried teaching [what I do] in a college one year, but it didn’t work for me, because I’ve still too much to learn.

Loved the students, loathed the institution.

Most of those “kids” I’ve mentored are working full time at the top of their game. In short, they now have my job. Makes me happy, but would make me happier if I could make ends meet. I’m a dop on the union and a director on the union (actually the dir. Guild booted me for not paying the dues) None of this makes a difference. I do handyman jobs( breaking concrete can be as satisfying as getting a great take) in between huge commercials and goofy corporate videos and very little 2nd unit stuff on big films. Whoop – de –do!

I’m a lackluster pavement pounder and distrustful of most “content” producers. That’s MY problem. And I’m working on that.

I’m working on it here: by grabbing a gh2 and turning my “profession” into my hobby, my art. I’m doing it backwards.

My brother is a stills guy and I think he got it right at the start by learning and loving and shooting and learning… Then he started to work for pay – and Mum do they pay him!

Right now in Vancouver, every street corner has a guy or gal with a dslr, tripod, and slider, day and night. It’s a desired career and demo reels abound. I love that all these new filmmakers are around, but they take up space, so getting paid to shoot and cut something is more difficult, eh.

The gist of this is this: Don’t be cynical! Do YOUR thing if getting paid isn’t working, or the whore factor is too high.

Hell! A film about DSLR hipsters in competition with old scallywag chemical film dogs like me would be good fun and right in front of you.

Give’r while you can Ryan and all others!

last_SHIFT

I always wanted to break into the entertainment industry but I went through a different path. Well in my case i'm a set designer/ writer with a theatre background - basically i knew there was no way in hell i could make ends meet with a film school degree. In the lean years I did a lot of corporate work - which led to TV art direction which led to working as a agency creative director. Which has gotten me back into live events/tv in a larger scale - luckily the income is stable enough where I can spend time pushing forward the screenplay I've been putting off for years.

But we're talking about over 15 years of experience here, it's been a long tough journey - i was painting scenery in off off off broadway basement theatres during a flood at one point :)

Everyone has their own path. Would i have changed some things if i could? Sure, but looking back all the rough patches made me grow up a lot - and if i has gotten some opportunities sooner without overcoming those challenges i honestly think i wouldn't have handeled them as successfully

mpgxsvcd

What everyone else said is great advice. However, it can take you a long time to find your big break. In the meantime if you have good ideas and friends that aren’t busy try making short films or sitcoms and post them on youtube.

If you can’t grab attention on youtube then you probably will have trouble grabbing the attention of some famous producer if you ever get the chance to show them your stuff.

If your videos on youtube are good then people will watch them and you will get paid by the ads that appear on the videos(don’t expect it to be a lot though) . If your work is good enough it will grab attention and help you get your foot in the door.

There are no guarantees with anything. However, going out there and showing your work to as many people as possible is a much better option than grabbing coffee for someone.

peternap

This is an interesting thread.

I started as a stills photographer and only recently moved into video. I found out early that I had no artistic talent at all. I made a living because I was too stupid to run away when everyone else did and I got things that no one else did.

I have worked on major films in technical positions that had nothing to do with filming but the contacts I made have been priceless.

I think it's been said, you have to find your own way. Good Luck!

goanna

Do a 27-sec TV ad for free. Consult, concept. script, shoot and post. Make a contract with the client so it gets good runs.

Do it well and you need never try to prove yourself again.

dbp

@beheath

I just moved to Vancouver last week. I worked for a video production company back east. I know what you mean, I very much feel like that guy on every corner with a DSLR. Hopefully my previous experience will give me a leg up on paper compared to a lot of the students fresh out of school. There truly is a ton of talent out there now, for better or for worse.

bheath

@dbp - good luck out there. Holy, Vangroovy can be too much. It is for me and I'm old. So, I live in the interior. Not the best career idea, but it's peaceful.

brianluce

Easiest way (and worst way) is weddings. They always get work. Even lousy ones. Some guys like it. Key thing is not to let yourself get branded as a "Wedding guy" because it can lock you in to only doing that type of gig. You need like a separate alto ego doing the stuff you love, be that Art House werewolf movies or Surfing docs.

RyanPW

These stories are definitely helpful. Interesting to hear about Vancouver, did not realize it was such a haven for video production...I'm not saying that I'd like to be a producer/writer/director right off the bat, but even wedding jobs, live events at bars and clubs, any job where your boss knows more about video than you do, seem to be scarce these days. They're scarce for the very reasons you've posted, that every DSLR hipster on any given corner (myself included) could, and very well should shoot a person's wedding better than you do. It's frustrating, because I could have very well skipped going to school and focused my money straight into gear. Hell, I could have a whole red camera setup right now if I didn't decide that an institution was a better route for myself. And of course I wouldn't have given up those four years for a tool I wouldn't be able to appreciate otherwise, but that's neither here nor there. I'm interested in things like what @goanna is saying. Create something that is worthwhile. It's hard when you've moved and don't know anyone anymore - I'm located in the Tampa FL area right now but I'm originally from Michigan (graduated from MSU) where all my film making friends are from. Right now I'm just hoping to get a job somewhere in Chicago/New York, but I feel like not living there is already going to be a huge "no thanks" sign to those who check out my resume anyways. I want to know how to bypass the system. It sounds sneaky, maybe even dishonest, but let's be honest, the system is against us filmmakers from the get go.

I think you're right though, I can't get cynical just yet. But, as my generation has taught me, there really is no reason to do it the 'wrong' way anymore. If you want to become something, you have to plan for it, and you have to make the right moves. There's too many rich snobs that will take your job because you didn't cut around enough corners to play ball with them. It's an odd way of looking at things, keeps one feeling hungry, but I feel like it is the only way to move up, to do the things you truly want to do in life. I don't mind doing PA work, I don't mind whatever job gets me closer to what I actually want to do, but I just don't want to end up at a job where I'm growing underneath someone who doesn't know anything about video, because then my creativity is going to be taken for granted, and frankly it's being wasted on corporate nonsense. I don't mind a creative job that gets someone else there money, but don't make it meaningless for me, or else I'm going to have to cut some corners to get what I want, know what I'm saying?

mythmaker

A shout out to the Vancouver peeps!

I've been in the business for going on 17yrs. I attended film school then thanks to my incessant nudging of my cinematography instructor at the time, my first gig was as a camera trainee on a 35mm feature that he was DP-ing. The Vancouver industry was on the rise and about to explode so I as very, very lucky with my timing. I got into the IATSE 669 camera trainee program and worked as an assistant for 7yrs whilst working on my own short films which I was lucky enough to win some national funding awards to make. I transitioned out of camera into screenwriting and continue to work as a writer, director and story consultant. I've had feature scripts produced and they all ended up as crappy films that hopefully most people will never waste their time seeing.

I haven't had a non-film biz job since I graduated film school so many would say I've had success but really, 17yrs on, I'm STILL working towards that elusive Big Break. To be honest, I don't think it's something 99.999% of us will ever experience. I suppose in some ways getting into the camera department, winning funding to make short films, getting scripts produced, etc. were all big breaks and each one of those experiences together with all the bad ones have made me into the working professional I am today. Ultimately its about stringing together all those small breaks, constantly pushing yourself to not quit, growing creatively, keeping inspiration alive as well as a positive attitude all whilst managing to not burn any bridges. Oh yeah, consistently paying your rent is a good thing too.

I'm definitely much higher up the ladder than when I started out but it never gets any easier. I'm still hustling for work and I still have months where I'm stressed about bills. It's a tough business to get in to and there is no one way of doing it. It's an even tougher business to survive in once you are in the door but, my god, it's awesome too! I'm extremely grateful for the many amazing people I've met and experiences I've had. If you can ride out the tough times and if it's something you really, really want to do (even better if its something you NEED to do) then you'll find some kind of success.

I envy people breaking into the business because, thanks to the technology it is so much more accessible than it was when I started out. Good luck, work hard and have fun doing it. :)

brianluce

@mythmaker Great post. Hardboiled and real world. Personally, growing up in Hollywood, I'd say your story, if anything, is successful one, since, despite lacking fame and fortune, you're not working as a nurse and doing all this on the side. What would you define as "Big Break"? Six figure script sale to a major?

bwhitz

I don't really know what to tell others at this point... as I don't really have a huge successful career to speak of myself. But from what I have observed, is that since the internet and festivals are flooded with so many good looking films... it's no longer a "big deal" to produce a short that looks "like a real film". It's just expected.

The people I see getting big directing jobs and big projects are the directors who know, and can direct for VFX. Say what you will about digital technology and the "overuse" of CGI, but it seems like anyone who has released a CGI intensive short in the last few years, that has had any degree of exposure on the internet, has been snatched up by h-wood agents and studios. Allot of producers and execs don't really like working (and/or supporting) newer directors who have no technical knowledge and real skills. i.e. the directors who arrogantly proclaim "I'm a director, I only work with actors and drama". They've been calling BS on this lately, they know it's all subjective in the end anyways, and they want newer directors with technical as well as creative skills. IMO, this is the job that the director should always have been, but has been technically prohibitive. Times are changing though. I'd start learning Maya or C4D. Learn composting. Learn VFX. I know that I've switched gears to working on CG-related personal projects myself. This is just the type of director/filmmaker that's in demand right now.

Any hipster in silverlake can simply round up an amateur DP with a DSLR, find a descent editor, have them basically execute the whole project, and them call themselves a director. They aren't looking for this anymore... and I say it's about damn time. :)

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Interesting topic.

Guys what do you thing about making cross interview. I mean, collect questions, and after this each one will make separate small video with their answers?

B3Guy

FWIW, when I get out of this wallet-rape of a joke they call "school", I'm going all the way. Feature length. Why not, I've done 20+ minute shorts. There seems to be this unspoken warning that you can't do a feature length film without a sizable crew and budget, well I'm gonna just ignore that. I might do it slower . . . but it'll get done. Who says I have to do it the way Hollywood does? I don't. In fact . . . I shouldn't. I'm not Hollywood, as much as I'd like to be.

bitcrusher

Do you know what you want to do yet?

What is this mindless corporate job you speak of.

I worked in corporate video for years, some of it was boring as hell but I never thought that it was mindless. I always did what I could to make it as interesting for client and me. Don't work for clients that take you for granted if you don't want to. My clients always took me for granted, they knew I would deliver.

There are going to be ups and downs the only thing you can control is the way you feel about it.

From the tone of your post it sounds like you want to work in the film/tv world. Move to where that is happening.

OK Here was the secret to getting started in the business back in the 90's (not sure if its still true today, left the business in 2000) NOTE: this also assumes that you know your shit very well.

Move to Hollywood you can also do NY but its expensive to live there.
Interduce yourself to all the rental houses sell yourself as and a grip that just moved to the area.
Grip for anything that comes up. Be awesome at your job. Know how to be liked. DO NOT WORK FOR FREE unless it with someone that you really want to work with.
You have now gotten your foot in the door and opportunities will start to come up all the time. Now is also the time to really think about if you want to be in this business. ie: long long long days, good pay but no benefits, not remotely as glamourous as you thought, EARLY mornings..... ect Oh ya don't be a PA starting out if you can avoid it, grip is a way better starting position.

B3Guy

@Vitaliy_Kiselev sounds like a cool idea. I'm out in NYC at the moment, and I'd be happy to help film some interviews or whatever.

RRRR

I sort of got into the game diagonally, not really a Photographer / Videographer originally.

I got my MA-exam in Fine Art, became a dad (the boy came the same week as my final exhibition) and suddenly everything was on end. After a couple of months of real dissaray I got my shit together, started a business, got a desk at a production company and went for every possible job. Through hard work and endless research I´m now in a position where I´m pretty comfortable with a lot of stuff and I realize I have a LOT to offer. Knowledge and skills that are not widely available, although it´s not easy to make potential employers / customers aware of this (because I´m mostly behind the camera)! And people can be skeptical about someone who isn´t a specialist in one thing only; especially so if you are skilled in a lot of different areas.

My own personal network is not large enough yet; I still can´t be too picky about the work I do (the shitty jobs are available because no-one wants them - a good source of income if you can make money without working your ass off); nor do I have any competence as a salesman. Good relationships with a few good people ensure that I get enough fun jobs to make the boring ones worthwhile, and the mutual trust that comes from successfully working closely together with a few good people can be pretty powerful.

Find a good bunch of people, and stick with it. If you get stuck, move. That is the best advice I can get.

cupanudles

I'm practically in the same position as Ryan, but am in Orlando, FL. Everyone's answers here are GREATLY appreciated! Thanks guys! :)

bitcrusher

@B3Guy "I'm going all the way. Feature length. Why not, I've done 20+ minute shorts. There seems to be this unspoken warning that you can't do a feature length film without a sizable crew and budget"

Sweet and you should give it a go. I really love awesome films that were shot on a micro budget.

rockroadpix

@bitcrusher

.Interduce yourself to all the rental houses sell yourself as and a grip that just moved to the area.

This really doesn't work unless you know how to be a grip and being a grip is about as hands on experience as you can get. I hired a gut that begrudgingly took a college shoot that I was producing for the rate of $300 as a utility grip/pa type. I didn't know him and someone recommended him. Five minutes into the shoot, the DP was teaching him how to set up a c stand. He said he was a grip, but he wasn't. I felt like I was watching him the entire shoot to make sure that he didn't fuck something up. NEVER AGAIN. If I hadn't been out in the middle of nowhere, he would have been sent home.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Guys, > before text work for citations very good :-)

rockroadpix

Guys, > before text work for citations very good :-)

oops, forgot to hit the shift, that's why it was no bueno!

bitcrusher

@rockroadpix

wow day rate is $300 for a grip now! You kids have it good.

My advice will only work if you know your way around a set. I would hope that after film school you would know how a C-stand works and what a C47 is. (but I would not know, never went to film school and oddly neither did anyone I worked with)

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