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'Apocalypse Now' Experimental Series 1 Thread - BOOM, Intravenus - cbrandin/driftwood AN Soft/Cinema
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  • True, true. If you intend on doing any post adjustments at all sharpening in-camera is just stupid. It just adds fake detail that the CODEC wastes bandwidth accommodating at the expense of real detail. Besides, editors can do a much better job with sharpening anyway, not having to do it in real time.

  • Which AN patch should we choose if we dont want to add softness to our panny lens?

  • Try those settings with "Soft" keyword.

  • @abraham1307 - It probably is a good idea to try several, and see which you like. Sharpness isn't really so monolithic. What do you mean? The ability to reproduce the smallest edges, or the ability to resolve edges with the most color/luma accuracy?

    It's like audio - does boosting mid-range improve clarity? Relatively speaking, boosting mid-range actually reduces high-frequency content. Does the effect seem to have more detail, though? It certainly sounds like there is more powerful detail. Sometimes the way we perceive things is different than what the pure numbers would indicate.

  • I dont want ”Soft” just looking for which AN settings will not add any extra sharpness or decrease the sharpness of my footage because I like the sharpness from the -2 setting in camera

  • @cbrandin

    Point of clarification here as I raise the dead to discuss sensor angle.

    Your "right angle" applies to micro-four-thirds only? Or is it all digital only formats like Sony's NEX? Or, is this universal to apply to Canon EF-S over Canon EF and Nikon DX over full frame G? If I stick a PL mount on an Arri, same problem?

    Old timers, like me, attributed MFT sharpness to the smaller everything associated with MFT. Are you saying that all film lenses are diminished when placed in front of any digital sensor? Or, are you saying that all film lenses are diminished when placed in front of any micro-four-thirds sensor?

  • AN just changes the way detail is rendered - in some ways perceived detail is increased, in others decreased. You'll just have to try them out.

  • Regarding "classic" vs. "digital" lenses, there are several issues to be taken into account.

    The oblique angles at which the rays hit the sensor wells and micro-lenses are one of them. They are worst with wide angles in non-retrofocus constructions, like lenses made for rangefinder cameras, not SLRs. A typical case is the Voigtländer 12mm on a Leica M9. This kind of problem hardly effects us if we use adapted SLR lenses.

    Another one is loss of contrast from light reflected off the sensor surface, bouncing around between the last glass surface and the IR- or anti-aliasing filter. The emulsion of analog film is far less reflective than these surfaces. Plus, some of our cheaper adapters don't have a really good black paint on their inside. The problem is worst when the lens is used wide open, of course. I noticed this when comparing a Rokkor 50mm 1.4 against a Nikkor with the same values, both very sharp lenses. The Nikkor is really blooming highlights when wide open, the Rokkor quite a bit less, but both lenses are much more contrasty on film. If you look at the rear lens of both of these, their curvature is different. This problem is more prominent with retrofocus lenses, typical for wide to medium for SLR (to create room for the mirror).

    BTW, Sony is taking care of some of the light bouncing around behind the lens with a rectangular black frame in their adapter for SLR lenses to NEX.

  • @onionbrain - It applies to all digital camera formats. Some older lenses don't don't exhibit this issue, but many do - it wasn't a design criteria in those days, so whether a lens delivered the image relatively vertically or not was largely a matter of happenstance. Today, it is a design criterion for lenses intended for digital cameras.

    I think it's less of an issue than it used to be with digital sensors, but it's still an issue, and most interchangeable lenses are designed to work with older digital cameras as well.

    As to your last question. Lenses are designed with a certain circle of confusion in mind. A lens designed for a full-frame camera is somewhat compromised when used with a smaller sensor because it wasn't designed with a small sensor in mind. On the other hand, defects that show up at edges will be reduced because what was originally the edge of the image is cropped out.

  • @nomad - good point about the reflections! Newer lenses have more coatings on inside surfaces because of that. "Digital" filters too.

    Good point about retrofocus designs too. I have a set of adapted Contax SLR Zeiss primes - they work very well with the GH2. The Contax Rangefinder Zeiss lenses - not as good.

  • One thing to consider - video is much lower resolution than still photography. For video, lots of this talk about sharpness and sensor size vs full frame lenses is academic.

  • @cbrandin wrote: "One thing to consider - video is much lower resolution than still photography. For video, lots of this talk about sharpness and sensor size vs full frame lenses is academic."

    This I can immediately agree with. If chromatic aberration is a problem at 1080 -- well...

    Regarding @nomad comment about highlight handling -- in my experience, with a quality Nikkor on a GH2 -- half of the bad highlight problem instantly vanishes. Stick an MFT lens on -- and you're instantly back at full force bad highlights.

  • CA probably isn't going to be an issue at 1080p. Color shifting at edges can be, however, especially with full frame digital cameras - that shows up irrespective of output resolution.

  • I just realized that in camera playback does not work in 1080p24 but it does in 720p60. Anyone else experience this? And yes, I'm using the 95mbs, 64g extreme card.

  • @vicharris Works for me, but very choppy....same card.

  • Like onionbrain, I have not seen any color banding in the test footage for this setting. Is this finally the magic bullet?

  • @stonebat I have the Leicasonic 14-50mm f2.8-3.5 and the 25mm f1.4 L-X025, and neither of them use Panasonic's in-body distortion correction. However, these are both legacy Four Thirds lenses, so it could be that Micro 4/3 Pana-Leica lenses do use distortion correction.

  • @QuickHitRecord After going through footage from this afternoon -- after staring hard at skies filmed using a graduated ND filter -- I did indeed find banding.

    I had to look for it -- it wasn't the kind of banding that stood out and would distract any kind of normal viewer.

    With enough cloud activity going on -- you'll see no banding.

    So, I think it's fair to say -- the appearance of banding is reduced with this setting. It's there -- but you need to look for it.

  • Test of "Valkyrie" Soft:) (parody)

  • @lpowell Ah it might be cost saving reason.

  • So distortion correction via camera body is bad? I just got the PL 24mm 2 days ago and testing it out :)

  • Distortion correction in camera is not really so bad, but the added sharpening is.

    @cbrandin I agree. When testing lenses, I always shoot a photo in full-rez too. They show so much more – problems too – that is just not visible in 1080.

  • Got it. Thanks mate.

    Also,

    No Sedna 444?? :P

  • @cbrandin: So you think those artifacts wont occur, when i set my camera to -2 at sharpening?

    I like the AN settings a lot. I think it might be a step for the GH2 to sometimes looking less videoish, especially with lower apertures and more dof.

    But sofar just from my gut feeling, the setting is not tweaked 100% yet.

  • Just wanted to report that the DREWnet/Soft patch did not span in three separate attempts using a 32 GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 95MB/s card shooting at 24H.

    Will test the 64 GB card in the morning.

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