Official Low GOP topic

jfro

@cbrandin @kea

I was getting a circle going round and round. I went back to find the 2 files as I haven't reformatted the card. I'm on the same computer and now they all play. Best guess is it was operator error and I just was impatient. Most of my tests today have been rather short and it usually load the files in under 10 seconds. I probably got impatient around 45 seconds. Even though I don't recall which files on the card gave me trouble, one of the files I thought it might be was around 3 minutes as opposed to the 60 second tests I was doing.

Again, sorry for the non issue.

I'm hoping for some more time tonight for a little more testing. Hoping we can get some more magic out of this little camera.

bdegazio

@jamesgh2

"I would truly love a way to extend 24H to 30frame H. That would make this camera unbeatable."

Shoot in 24H, 80% mode. There's no sound, and you have to conform the file to 30p on playback but it works fine and produces true 1080p30.

danyyyel

"on longer gop the jello is no more and amplified" I can't update my above post, it have been read "on longer gop the jello is more and amplified"

danyyyel

@Donnie88 I have the same question. I know that as some said it before that the speed of the sensor does not change, but on the very nice video in the metro (tube) I see the image to be very... jello free for a handheld shots. More so as there are much more vibration in a metro. I am asking myself if the fact that on longer gop the jello is no more and amplified because the codec is calculating much more from the I frame every 12 frame. Like a cascading effect and with more I frame the effect is diminished?

svart

I believe the formatting probably alleviates file fragmentation which slows read/write times and can cause the speed errors.

jamesgh2

@kae regarding 12:20PM Settings.

First off thank you for all the work its really turning out great, love the look of 24H 3 GOP!

At first I was getting recording lockups every time same as before but then I changed cards. The second card was no trouble it recorded all 720 60 1080 60i Average 40mbit and 24H average 58Mbits with absolutely no problems. Tested 2 minutes for each and no lockups.

Then It occurred to me that the main problem here is that some cards have better yields than others but it still shouldn't be such a huge discrepancy especially since they have the same exact serial for the batch and are true originals from New Egg. Transcends 32GB Class 10.

I then formatted the other fail card several times in camera even though it was empty except for the tests and well it works fine now.

So for all you testers fresh cards should be a priority before any errors pop up. Format the cards in camera before testing.

Great work kae these settings seem way more stable.

One big problem I see is that 1080i 60 and 720p 60 look like rubbish compared to 24H mode. It probably has to do with how the sampling is obtained but the difference is really night and day. I cant recall if this was still the case on Stock Firmware but I do remember 60i sucking in the aliasing department.

I would truly love a way to extend 24H to 30frame H. That would make this camera unbeatable.

With kae's latest settings this 24p mode smokes every camera Ive come across in DSLR land and AVCHD low end pro like the Pana HMC 150.

I am using a Silver NTSC US model. Transcend Class 10 32GB Cards.

Donnie88

Will Kae's low GOP patch have any impact on jello?

cbrandin

@jfro

What do you mean by "stream parser won't read it"? Does it produce an error message of some sort? There is a file check feature under "tools" - what does it say?

Chris

Angry_C

@kae:

Thanks for your hard work.

I tested every mode 10 times on death chart. Here are my results with two Transcend Class 10 32GB:

Mode Error(s)

1080i60 3 of 10
720p60 10 of 10
1080p24 0 of 10

with Tele-ex

1080i60 8 of 10
720p60 10 of 10
1080p24 0 of 10

jfro

@kae Your new settings work although I don't get as high a rate as you on the 24p. No big test yet, just couple quickies.

One thing I had happen twice, is the last file I shot on the two occasions, (1 was 24p, the other was 60p) was that stream parser wouldn't open the last file. On the first last file, it played back fine, then when I went out and shot again, the new last file played ok, but stream parser wouldn't read it. However the previous last file could be read by stream parser where it didn't before. Will do a little playing around with that. Go figure.

driftwood

Currently rendering some new 24P tests using the latest best stable settings. For anyone who doesnt understand Group of Pictures (GOP) see FCP7 manual link;-

http://documentation.apple.com/en/finalcutpro/usermanual/index.html#chapter=C%26section=12%26tasks=true

and/
Motion-based Adaptive GOP Algorithms for Efficient H.264/AVC Compression

www.atlantis-press.com/php/download_paper.php?id=12

PS:

Shows a quick sample from a longer video using Vitaly's hack/ kae's GOP 3 setd.ini 24p test vs the standard gh2 body firmware. see video info for details. Yes, I know youtube is sh*t, but the tests were completely identical, rendered to 23.97 mpeg2 then uploaded using youtube's h264 implementation. The bitrate 65mb of Vitaly's pays off on quality and kae's settings improve movement although i was moving quicker on the gh2 hack version. left hand is stock, right hand is hack.

Butt

@kae
"B-Frame": you can GOP3, 6, 12, 24 for 720/50p; GOP3, 6, 15,30 for 720/60p
problem
you must first one clip in 24p or 50/60i - otherwise: Crash
I do not see any improvement with B-frames for 720p

sry for my bad englisch!?

kae

@Shield

Per cbrandin, they are always there, just not as noticeable but still doesn't mean you could effectively use those frames.

Shield

@kae I thought at around 32 Mbit there were no blips? It does affect me as I start and stop a lot.

kae

@Butt
'No, it is "Encoder setting 1 720p: set "3" and you have 720p B-Frames'

Have you tried it and noticed a difference? If so, at what GOP for 720P 60 and 720P 50?

Also, what is the secret for higher data 720P/1080i? If we can do 64Mb/s on 1080 24p we should be able to at least reach those data rates in the other modes, right?

kae

@Nigel785
I have never tested with a Class 6. Not saying it won't work but wouldn't chance it. The data rates for 65m 1080 24P 3 GOP patch are bursting a 93-94 Mb/s.

Butt

@svart @kae
No, it is "Encoder setting 1 720p: set "3" and you have 720p B-Frames

Nigel785

@kae

I take it your using a class 10? I've got class 6 transcends, will class 6 do, or should I upgrade to shoot both extreme 24p and 42mb 720?

svart

I think it was 720 encoder setting 2? It was in another thread but I don't remember which one right now.

kae

@Shield

Don't think you'll ever get non-default high bitrate settings without the blip per cbrandin and Vitaliy. At least for now. The blip does absolutely nothing to get in the way of shooting/editing - except perhaps mess up your clip thumbnails.

@svart
"Have you looked at the 720p60 with B frames at all?"

Wow. Didn't know that was possible? Which encoder setting will force the B frames in 720P?

svart

interested in trying these settings Kae. Have you looked at the 720p60 with B frames at all?

Shield

@APXmusic - with your "casual " settings one still gets the blip at the beginning though, right? I'm looking for most stable without the blip.

kae

jfro

"With your settings from 2:06 AM, A quick test showed the 60- and 24p...."

Try the settings above. The confusion arose with tests I did for Vitaliy that indicated the 'overall bitrate and 24H bitrate' settings didn't need to be ticked for 1080 24P to work at higher data rates, unfortunately unticking them broke other modes using lower GOPs. This is remedied (I think) in the above file. On the death chart you will routinely get 64Mb/s in 1080 24P GOP 3, you will get a max of 42 Mb/s in the other modes on the chart. Less detailed footage of course will vary. I think Butt is using some different caps for the bitrate than I am. I'm just trying to find the MAX stable bitrate for 1080 24p with Vitaliy's existing patches.

Butt

@APXmusic
>Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying<<br />ok - is not important

kae

@jfro @all

Testers Only:

KAE Extreme 65Mb/s 1080 24P 3 GOP with 42Mb/s 720P 60 GOP 10, 720P 50 GOP 9, 1080i 60 GOP 6, 1080i 50 GOP 3

Been working a few hours on 720p and 1080i settings because some of you have been having trouble in those modes when using the extreme 65M 1080 24p settings. I think I've come up with a fairly stable fix but will need others to test. The 'overall bitrate' settings definitely needed to be added back in and the GOP for the 720p modes needed to be raised to make those modes more stable. Still coming from a 'lower GOP is nicer visually for motion' prejudice, which I know most people disagree with, I raised the GOP settings to 10 for 720P/60 and 9 for 720P/50. The 1080i/60 is still GOP 6 and the 1080i/50 is a 3 GOP as it's tied to the 1080 24P 3 GOP. I've attached the latest settings file with all this in. I'm hoping it will give users who want the extreme 65mill 3 GOP 1080 24p a stable base 42 Mb/s settings in the other 720P, 1080i modes both NTSC and PAL. Be forewarned I am no expert in any of this, especially 720p or 1080i modes. I am simply using an upper limit of 42 mb/s for the other AVCHD modes because I can't seem to make it stable above that - if you can, modify your settings accordingly in those modes.

I have tested the death chart on all those modes for 3 minutes straight with no lockups or write errors. Clips will play back in cam and on desktop. Once I got a 'could not playback clip' error in camera. Turning off the camera and turning it back on allowed it to play the clip back fine. The ever present front 10 frame blockies are in residence with these settings.

Looking forward to you guys trying to break these settings. I have only tested with 32GB Class 10 card.

** Please reformat your cards before doing heavy testing on these.

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